islamist extremists strike in france

[KareninsGirl]

My thoughts are with the victims of the latest barbaric act by Islamic extremists.

The world needs to wake up and defend itself.

RIP those who died and prayers for those critically injured.

at French magazine office www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30710883

saw him Chipstick. I think he's the replacement for the now discredited Mo Ansar. Naaty piece so work

They are desperate to get useful idiots to believe that Islam is a race. I have seen people on here on MN claiming it is a race. Once you give a belief system the status of a race then all criticism is prohibited. That's what they want

Dreaming. Xenophobia is fear if foreigners. Again inappropriate use of the word as many of these fundamentalists are British (so not foreign) and as I keep telling you a phobia is an unfounded fear, so another inappropriate use

Babbas. Not you too. Get a dictionary. Look up racist. Look up Islamophobia. Educate yourself before joining the game and trying to okay the big R card or the big I card, because we don't play that game anymore

Dora, ecause my language but I'm rather passionate about this subject because I know one of the victims very well. And I don't take kindly to people like you who spout nonsense with no knowledge of the subject who misinform others.

The police can press charges without the consent of the victim in some cases. But what you are saying is absolutely irrelevant toss because the police in Rotherham would not press charges regardless of whether the victim wanted them to or not. In many cases there was evidence and the victims and their families BEGGED for charges and the police refused because they wouldn't prosecute that type of crime when committed by Muslims.

What about Orientalism, WetAugust, do you dismiss that too?

And who made you the arbiter of this 'game'? Who is the 'we' you refer to?

In law, several of these terms are defined as being perceived as such. Unfortunately a dictionary might well be of no use whatsoever to you, if you find yourself hauled up before the bench.

And an emphatic no to the ridiculous idea you have just stated that "The concept of free speech has changed"

Free speech is just that. Discriminating against someone is illegal and using epithets that demean race, disability etc are also illegal

Outside of those constraints speech remains free and if you don't think so you don't deserve the luxury of free speech.

Wet your antagonism is escalating. Are you defending the right of freedom of expression and at the same time shouting down every other poster who doesn't agree with you?

And yes your us and them language is slightly disturbing.

I didn't know Hebdo had fired a cartoonist for anti semitic speech.

All freedom of speech must be defended. Otherwise what is the point of any of it.

From a socio-political perspective, individuals are uninteresting. However, their individual beliefs and attitudes highlight the wider cultural, historical and political ideologies. As a society, I think that we are beginning to understand that. So, individuals are nowhere as prominent to social theorists and commentators as the belief systems which they espouse - socially and culturally possible beliefs. Thus, there's no point talking about racists; we need to talk about racism. No point discussing individual sexists - we need to address culturally, institutionally and politically sanctioned sexism. Ditto with Christianity, Judaism, Islam. I do not see a difference. Can you be a moderate racist? Can you be a moderate sexist? If the ideology does not make it possible for one to believe in pluralism and equality (e.g., Judaism is as important as Islam; women are equal to me) then how can you self-identify as a moderate Muslim or a moderate sexist?

Dora

Again you are wrong because you can actually take a dictionary with you to court and are permitted to rely on that source to support your case. It's called legal interpretation. just as you can refer to Hansard if any other scholarly publication,

Who is 'we'. We are right thinking people who tolerate the belief systems of others and can appreciate satire without taking an AK 47 and slaughtering satirists. Any like-minded person us "we" regardless if race, creed, etc etc. "We" is the plural of the "Je" in #jesuischarlie

Nice try Somewheresafe. Try to belittle the poster with whom you disagree. Nothing wrong with my views which are shared by a lot of posters on here. So stop playing the man and play the ball if you have the guts to do so

Wet you are closing down discussions and debate with your aggression.

It would be good to hear from muslim mnetters on this thread but i can see why they are keeping their distance.

Well, if you're so insistent on dictionary definitions, WetAugust...

From the OED:

Islamophobia: Dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims, especially as a political force.

No you can be little bit sexist of a little bit racist. They are absolutes. Once you discriminate on the grounds of attributes that an individual cannot change you have crossed that line into sexism, racism whatever

yy cleanmachine. Nasty and aggressive.

Oh please. I used to work for a Holocaust research institute so I'm well aware thanks, in fact that's why I find the posts on this thread so troubling. Classic examples of othering, xenophobia, paranoia (UK will be Islamic state, classic!). It's not me who needs to read some history.

You can't have it both ways. You can't say you're against fundamentalist Islam because it's un-British and then say being against it isn't xenophobic.

The definition of xenophobia says it's an unreasonable fear or hatred -- I think that's pretty accurate. Letting a small minority of extremists make you fearful and hateful about an entire religion and community is unreasonable. Saying we will have an Islamic state in 100 years is just paranoia.

I have to go back to work but froth away. I can see where this thread is heading.

Thanks for the legal training, Wet. I'm taking notes

Er, M'laud. Tis not a hate crime with which I'm accused, on account of the fact that my abridged Oxford, which lies before me, describes a race as a peoples and there was only one victim. So, M'laud, he is a person. Ergo I'm not a racist.

I'll be sure to give it a go next time I'm charged.

Islamophobia is a word that has had its definition hijacked in recent years

It was first used in 1991 in a Runnymede a Trust Report that defined Islamophobia as "unfounded hostility and therefore fear or dislike of most Muslims"

the words "and therefore" appear yo have been disregarded by the OED. I don't have a copy so can't check. You only have to look at the roots if the word to see phobia Is fear.

I am not aggressive. I am exasperated at some people claiming that Islam us a race as it's views like this that make social harmony much harder to achieve

well you'll be glad that I have to cook dinner now

dreaming you have said more than once that a poster on this thread said "there is no such thing as moderate Islam" when that is categorically not what was said and the full quote has been quoted for you. Why?

Just to be clear, WetAugust, you shut down another poster by telling her to go and look Islamophobia up in a dictionary, and now you are saying that the dictionary is wrong?

Riiiight.

You can't be a ‘little bit sexist' or 'partially racist' - I know what you are referring to (It's socially acceptable for women to have a job as long as it's not as an airline pilot...). However, I still maintain that even this so-called moderate belief implies an inequality, which can be detrimental to many. You either don't believe it at all or you do because even an endorsement of a '1' on such a scale is inequality (but in real life, this is pretty academic, I suppose, which is why we are all working hard to change these beliefs).

Islamaphobia definition - interesting how the focus is on individuals (dislike of Muslims) and not on social practices/actions of the belief system. Hmmm.

The definition is dislike of Islam/Muslims *fourmummy'. Not solely focused on individuals.

emotions

fourmummy said:

"Beliefs about women's, other belief systems' inferiority are at the core of Islamic beliefs. There is no way to be 'moderate' and believe these things. Moderation, here, means accepting pluralism - but Islam does not teach this."

wet replied:

"I hold the same view as you, that there is no such thing as moderate/extreme Islam, but just moderate/extreme reactions to perceived slights to their religion"

I think that says it pretty plainly. If either of them would like to come back and say they do believe in moderate Islam, I will take it back. I note they haven't yet.

And now I really must go.

Once you give a belief system the status of a race then all criticism is prohibited.

That doesn't bode well for the Fuck The Pope song.

Two thirds of Catholics are in the developing world. It is predicted to become three quarters in the next four decades.