Madness!? My atheist friend had her daughter baptised to get her into a faith school

[oliviasmummy]

This is a story about my good friend (you know who you are!!) who recently had her dd (aged 1) baptised. The best school for dd in her area is a C of E primary, and, after enquiring about catchment areas etc she was told that the child should also be baptised to assure entry. This she duly arranged, although feeling, that on the basis of all probability, god does not exist. She does not worship or pray to any such god.
Her argument for doing this is that she wants the best for her child, and if that includes putting dd through some silly ritual that involves water over the head and a nice frilly dress then so be it!
I think that this should be discussed, is she jumping through hoops, as it were, to secure a greater good, or is she being a hypocrite, ignoring her beliefs when it suits?
While I write this as a gentle little probe to annoy, I wonder how other MNers would respond?

so u atheists who say u would get ur child baptised to get them into school are basically saying u would stand up and lie in front of ur child/family/friends?
baptism isnt about just pouring water over a childs head,there are statements yopu have to make,u have to state that u will take them to church every week and bring them up to be a christian.
i know i couldnt bulls**t like that just to get my child into a certain school!

Suggest you re-read my posts.
I never said/suggested it wasn't worth welcoming anyone into the church. I actually said "i agree the church should welcome everyone". As far as I'm concerned anyone is welcome to go to church. It just pisses me off a bit that some people use the church to suit themselves but have no intention of taking any interest in it or visiting it ever again.

And keep the 'waste of time' comment in context. I only said/meant that baptising a child for the sole reason of getting it into a school could be a waste of time "if the school is oversubscribed that being baptised wont be enough, some CofE schools look at regular attendance at church as well

Sorry, that was to HC

To bubble.. aren't everyone's taxes used for things they disagree with on some level, though?

its true,dont look at me,my ds/dd's school doesnt have being baptised as part of its entry requirements,after distance from school,siblings at school etc,its regular church attendence.

I bet she also did it for the presents

"PFI contract gone wrong" is a good decription actually - wish I'd thought of that.

"Schools-and-hospitals" are often lumped together by politicians. Imagine if you had to prove your allegiance to a faith or church before you could get your child treatment in your nearest hospital.

Absolutely true, sobernow! DS2 and DS3 attend a state primary school with better SATS results than the nearest C of E school, which the pushier parents I know were trying to get their children into a few years back.

but u dont have to prove ur allegience to a faith to get kids into a school?!unless ur out of the catchment area and it is over subcribed

Depends on the school, doesn't it?

Some will welcome you with open arms providing you have a nice smile, don't smell of herbs and don't show any overt signs of wanting to scrawl chalk pentangles on the playground or hold a Black Mass at Assembly.

Others want a letter signed in Communion Wine and sealed in wax by the priest, confirming that you have been a regular attender at church for fifteen years, that he knew your dad when he was a choirboy and that you say seventeen Hail Marys every morning over the cornflakes.

it must be different in different LEAs then.my local c of e school is just the local school and as there were plenty of places i had no problem getting ds and dd1 in.

unquietdad-i hope they dont throw dd1 out of the school when she stars going on about her obssesion with witchcraft
i think the last part of ur post only applies to catholic schools.and i can honestly say none of the choirboys at my school/church were destined to be anybodys dad.not biologically anyway.

Also not true here. We are so in the catchment area of the local CofE and Catholic schools that DS could probably fall out of bed and into school, but he won't stand the smallest iota of a chance of getting in because we're not churchgoers.

What do you think of this then? These friends of mine actually converted to Catholism so that their dd could go to school there. they were CoE. Its one thing to baptise your child for the sake of school placement but to actually convert the whole family?? To me, its a whole new level of hypocrisy. Then again, its the same God so maybe I'm wrong ....

Well, if you're a genuine believer and genuinely don't feel that denomination is important I guess it doesn't matter and probably isn't hypocritical. No idea about the specifics of your friends' case, though.

They aren't regular church-goers. Probably go to the church they married in once a year or so. Think they think of themselves as genuine believers although she once said that the conception of Jesus didn't actually happen. I know it's hard to believe some things in the Bible but that's what faith is all about for believers, isnt it?

yes I sort of know what you meant Don'tlookatmeI'mshy, but it is still a pretty odd thing to say imo, that baptising a child would have been a waste of time. presumably a practising Christian would think there is a benefit to being baptised, notwithstanding school entrance, otherwise why do it?
it is in fact every person's right to be baptised in their parish, just like it is everyone person's right to be married. that is one of the responsibilities of the CofE as the established church

I think DLAMIS's 'waste of time' comment was solely directed at the efficacy of baptism as a route into a particular school.

Bet she regrets it now

am a bit that your friend was allowed to convert if those are her beliefs.

Presumably she didn't tell the priest her beliefs?

btw, on a point of information, I reckon if your friend feels that "on the basis of all probability, god does not exist" then she's an agnostic, not an atheist? and what does her dh/dp think?

catholica believe that a child is born 'contaminated' (for want of a better word) with the original sin of adam and eve,and baptising them cleanses them of that sin,thats why catholics have sick babies baptised so that if they die they can go to heaven,cos they would go to hell otherwise!!
the other denominations view baptism as a thank you to god for the new baby,and a way of welcoming them into the church and promising to bring them up in the christian faith.
i dont think theres anything wrong with having a child baptised in a c of e church if u believe in god but dont go to church every week,but to do it if ur 100% atheist is wrong IMO.

greenday,do u mean that ur friend doesnt believe that mary was a virgin,or that she doesnt believe jesus existed atall??

She doesn't believe that Mary was a virgin. Good point .. sorry I didn't clarify.

Um, divastrop, up until about 2 weeks ago the Catholic church taught that unbaptised babies went to Limbo rather than hell (the basic idea being that Limbo was a nice place but you didn't get the whole presence-of-God thing). Now the new Pope seems to have done away with the idea of Limbo, with the implication being that unbaptized babies go to Heaven, but it all seems a bit confused at the moment. I must ask my brother...