Madness!? My atheist friend had her daughter baptised to get her into a faith school

[oliviasmummy]

This is a story about my good friend (you know who you are!!) who recently had her dd (aged 1) baptised. The best school for dd in her area is a C of E primary, and, after enquiring about catchment areas etc she was told that the child should also be baptised to assure entry. This she duly arranged, although feeling, that on the basis of all probability, god does not exist. She does not worship or pray to any such god.
Her argument for doing this is that she wants the best for her child, and if that includes putting dd through some silly ritual that involves water over the head and a nice frilly dress then so be it!
I think that this should be discussed, is she jumping through hoops, as it were, to secure a greater good, or is she being a hypocrite, ignoring her beliefs when it suits?
While I write this as a gentle little probe to annoy, I wonder how other MNers would respond?

agree with the others who say this is just one distortion in a system with many inequalities built into it.

I think the system is wrong. Religion shouldn't be used as a criteria to admit pupils. I tend to agree with SEA

Ita Hallgerda. If you don't beleive it's not a problem. It's only a problem if you offend some long forgotten belief. And as for religion spilling over into your life - not in our house! DS#1 tells anyone that asks that he doesn't beleive in God and it's all a load of nonsense. I applaud his principles but would prefer a little more politeness .

But this whole issue is one of the main problems with religious schools. Divisive and exclusive.

I nearly did exactly the same thing.

Before we moved to this area, the area we lived in was awful and the choice of schools equally as awful. I went and visited the 2 that Dd was in the cathment area for and nearly cried, there was no way I was sending her to either.

There were 2 very nice catholic schools in the area and so i would have got Dd baptised in order to get her in. and no I don't believe in god or anything and am not catholic myself, but I would have done anything in order to not have to send dd to those awful schools.

In the end we got moved and the local primary is great thankfully.

oliviasmummy, the main reason I wouldn't do it is that I'm a terrible liar, for reasons as much to do with my educational background and poor memory as any moral scruples. There isn't a religion-free option in state education anyway - I don't suppose the OP's friend is actually putting herself through any more conflict between home and school over religion through opting for a C of E school than she would if she sent her daughter to an ordinary state primary. She's only being asked to have her daughter baptised, not to attend church regularly.

I think of religious schools as a PFi contract gone even worse than normal. The government has used your tax money to pay various organisations to run schools.
If one couldn't ride on a given train run by a private train operator unless you were a Catholic, you'd be both outraged and quite happy to lie.

You paid for this school, if you have to tell a few lies, so be it.

I wouldn't do it myself but then we can afford other options if necessary (and the church schools around here all require at least three years of solid church attendance and involvement in parish activities). I don't think she's necessarily wrong two of her principles (giving her DD a good start in life, and having no truck with organised religion) have come up against one another and, as we all do in those cases, she has to work out how to balance them off against each other. I agree with UnquietDad that personally I don't believe that there should be religious state schools at all. I rather like DominiConnor's analogy, as well I may steal that for my next real-life rant on the subject...

hey! I agree with DC! how invigorating.

We spent a year attending church as part of the years of worship required to get DD into the local CofE school. Last weekend I realised how strongly I was against the brainwashing of repenting my sins each week or that Jesus is our saviour so we made a family decision not to go to church unless DD shows an avid interest. If she doesn't get into the local school we will look elsewhere. I would never babtise my child to get her into school, she is free to make that decision when she is older. I might reconsider if it was a life or death situation.

Yes it's hypocritical.

Hope she doesn't criticise Christians when they do something for their kids that may not be in line with the bible.

Also she might find that if the school is oversubscribed that being baptised wont be enough, some C of E schools look at regular attendance at church as well, so she'll have wasted everyones time.

Not as much as the government will have wasted hers

sorry, maybe I am feeling argumentative this morning but why would having a child baptised be wasting time? surely the church would welcome any child regardless of his parent's religion?
sure;y the CofE would welcome the opportunity to educate a child like this?

It's one of the basic tenets of the CofE that all and any are welcome.

It is really dishonest and setting a very bad example to her children.

Harpsichord - I don't think the church thinks that way. They want baptised and they want church attendance. They are not as open minded as you think. We live in a very middle class environment and this seemed to v important at church which was also one of the factors for stopping going. The hypocrasy was unbelievable.

there is a word for discriminating against children on the grounds of their parents' beliefs.
intolerance is worse than hypocrisy, on balance.

I expect they want money more than souls tweezerqueen.
how shocking and yes not surprising [grin[

I just meant wasting time in the time and effort in doing the ceremony. i agree the church should welcome everyone but unfortunately in some areas the schools are oversubscribed and so criteria are used.
In any school, if there are too many children for the amount of places, then some willmiss out regardlessof what criteria are used. In some CofE schools church attendance is one of the criteria. Im not saying its fair, but thats the way it works in some schools.

If you think it's hypocritical then campaign to get rid of the system whereby people have to be hypocritical.
Plenty of non-believers are up in arms, it would really help if plenty of believers could get as exercised.

It is shocking but we were advised that we live in a 'Pay or Pray' area. I don't remember my parents having to go to church to get me into school, I think it's shocking that these are the only options.

I believe some diversity in the system benefits us all, even those who can't afford to pay and wouldn't pretend to believe. I won't use the standard phrase, but just think about headlice and the teaching of times tables and reading. If every school was part of the same system and subject to the same dead hand, how would mistakes made by the educational establishment be spotted, and positive innovations made? I think DC's PFI analogy falls down for historical reasons - the Church got involved in education in this country long before the State did.

no, it's not fair, in fact it's wrong. the CofE set a very bad example by colluding in a discriminatory system, imo.

If the school is a church school they are entitled to expect that pupils/parents are sympathetic to their ethos/beliefs and I suppose stating that they expect regular church attendance is a way of assessing this criteria.

If an islamic school required regular worship at a mosque would you accuse them of hypocrisy?

Hallgerda, the church was also involved in providing social care and medical treatment, so would it be OK to discriminate on the grounds of religion in those areas because of the historical aspect?