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Oxford University denies that UKIP candidate Natasha Bolter ever attended Oxford

656 replies

claig · 10/12/2014 17:51

"Natasha Bolter: Oxford University deny sex scandal Ukip candidate ever attended"

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11285916/Natasha-Bolter-Oxford-University-deny-sex-scandal-Ukip-candidate-ever-attended.html

Roger Bird, who is a PPE, introduced Natasha Bolter as having defected from Labour and being a PPE too.

I saw her interviewed on BBC Newsnight last night, and I did begin to wonder about Oxford and PPEs. I'm not a big fan of PPEs at the best of times, but Gordon Bennett, I thought to myself.

What's going on?

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claig · 14/12/2014 07:14

I learned that it was a PPE-ist when I saw the video of UKIP's Roger Bird introducing Natasha Bolter at the UKIP Conference (known colloquially as the "Tearing Up Their Lawns" Conference) in Miliband's backyard. He said he was a PPE-ist. I had to rewind the youtube video to see if I heard it right because it sounded very close to saying "pissed". I don't thing in rolls off the tongue right. I prefer PPE, it's got a certain gravitas. It's like saying "she's got a PhD" where PhD is short for PhD degree and the degree is understood or "he's an OBE". It may not be strictly correct Oxford English, but I think in these less deferential times, it just sounds better.

Nick Cohen who has a PPE, a PPE (degree), says in his article

"How an Oxford degree – PPE – created a robotic governing class

Most of our prominent politicians studied the same subject at Oxford. Is it any wonder we’re so badly governed?"
...
Last week Vernon Bogdanor described his astonishment that the man he called ‘my ablest pupil’ (David Cameron, PPE, Brasenose College) was drawing up a new constitution on scrap paper."

www.spectator.co.uk/features/9322492/the-politics-of-ppe/

I never said all PPEs are on a mission to destroy our country, I think our political class, which contains a disproportionate anount of PPEs, is ruining our great country and I have had enough which is why I am voting UKIP. Farage put it well in the Independent and that is the reason why tens of thousands of people are voting UKIP too. We have all had enough of our political class of spinners who are turning our street lights off without asking us, trying to stop us buying 2 for 1s of alcohol at Aldi, even talking about banning smoking in parks etc. We have had enough of the metropolitan elite, they are out of touch.

"But if you really have had enough of the political elite. If you really have had enough of poor policy making, unchecked migration, unavailable school places, immense strain on the national services, our EU membership, our extraordinarily large foreign aid budget and more… then you don’t have to vote that way anymore."

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/nigel-farage-me-vs-russell-brand-on-question-time--hes-got-the-chest-hair-but-where-are-his-ideas-9919668.html

We are going to kick them out all over Essex, we're the People's Army. They thought they could turn our street lights off after midnight without asking us. Maybe they thought we were just "plebs" who pay for all their perks, maybe power had gone to their heads. But UKIP, the People's Party, is going to put a stop to all of that

"UKIP: Now we take on the street lights and the potholes

A NEWLY elected UKIP councillor has set his sights on the Harlow street lights and potholes after winning a seat on the council."

www.yourharlow.com/2014/05/23/ukip-now-we-take-on-the-street-lights-and-the-potholes/

This is a revolution, the UKIP revolution, the common sense revolution, the people have had enough.

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claig · 14/12/2014 10:38

"Shock poll shows voters believe Ukip is to the left of the Tories"

Voters see Ukip as more left wing than the Conservative Party in a shock poll finding that will fuel concerns among Ed Miliband's allies that Nigel Farage is " parking his tanks on Labour's lawn* ".

A poll for The Independent on Sunday exposes what Labour strategists have been fearing for months – that voters do not regard Ukip as a party of the far right, but as one closer to the centre ground than the Tories. As such it could win Labour votes in the North. It suggests that attempts by Labour to portray Mr Farage's party as "more Thatcherite than Thatcher" have fallen flat.

It is the first time that voters have put Ukip to the left of the Conservatives, in a format in which they are asked to place parties on the left-right political spectrum. The move creates greater uncertainty over the outcome of May's election."

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/poll-shows-voters-believe-ukip-is-to-the-left-of-the-tories-9923416.html

I feel sorry for the Tories. One minute they pretend to veer to the right, then they have to pretend to veer to the left. We've got the spinners spinning round in circles, they don't know if they are coming or going. They're going, we're kicking them out.

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BoulevardOfBrokenSleep · 14/12/2014 10:38

Thank you WetAugust, I mostly agree with what you've written there - I'm pretty sure it's still illegal to serve someone who seems drunk? and of course the country seems to be moving towards an American style ID system where even wrinkly old ladies like me have to prove they're over 18 to get their gin...

What about seatbelt laws? That's another 'nanny state' one, controversial at the time. Still big in the US libertarian movement, which of course shares a lot of DNA with UKIP.

Isitmebut · 14/12/2014 20:27

Claig ... please don't feel sorry for the Conservatives, they don't (or have to) "pretend" anything, they have a record from 1979 to 1997 and from 2010 to now, in leaving the country in f-a-r better shape than when they came to power - when other parties were clueless what to do - including UKIP, who still don't know from 2010 to 2015, what their manifesto stood for.

As for a poll suggesting voters think UKIP is further to the left than the Conservatives, who on a non inbred earth did they poll?

A more useful bit of research still confirms, UKIP will hand government back to Labour in 2015.

“Ukip is 'less of a threat to Labour MPs': Party's support is overwhelmingly formed of voters who chose Conservative in 2010”
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2866289/Ukip-threat-Labour-MPs.html

• New research suggests UKIP will inflict more damage on the Conservatives
• Would increase chances of Labour entering Number 10 following election
• Ukip voters are mainly those who voted Conservative in 2010
• Most Labour voters switching to Ukip deserted between 2001 and 2010

“Most so-called ‘core Labour’ voters switching to Ukip had already deserted the party between 2001 and 2010 as a reaction to Tony Blair and New Labour, they have found.”

“By contrast, switches from the Conservatives to Nigel Farage’s party are more recent and still happening – seriously undermining David Cameron’s chances of winning a Commons majority in May.”

“Other findings of researchers at the British Election Study (BES) suggest the Lib Dems are on course for far greater losses next year than most have assumed.”

”Professor Jane Green from the University of Manchester, another co-director of the BES, said separate research showed that contrary to the popular view, Ukip is no more successful at winning over the politically disengaged than the other parties.”

”Only the Greens are set to gain more in 2015 from people who didn’t vote in either the 2005 and 2010 elections,’ she said. Previous non-voters make up 19 per cent of those intending to vote Green – far higher than the other parties.”

“As a percentage of all voters, those shifting to Labour and Conservative from not voting is higher than Ukip: 2.7 per cent for Labour, 2.2 per cent for Conservative but only for 1.4 per cent for Ukip.”

UKIP has run out of sitting Conservatives and therefore electoral steam, leaving what UKIP's Mr Soutter calls the "lunatics" - its official.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2873508/Ukip-official-charge-vetting-candidates-admits-spends-half-time-weeding-lunatics.html

WetAugust · 14/12/2014 21:50

Boulevard

Ive never seen any UKIP policy on seatbelts. in thesis country I. Think it's a 'given' that seatbelt legislation is here to stay as it saves lives and reduces costs to the NHS and in emotional damage to families that by be bereaved by the fact the victim wasn't wearing a seatbelt (e.g. Princess Di)

the individual's freedom v the State's right go dictate to people - we could debate that forever

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep · 14/12/2014 22:37

Yy, I wasn't really asking from a UKIP point of view, I was just interested to get a feel for where you (and claig, who posts copiously while saying very little Grin) draw the line between personal freedom and the state's responsibility towards protecting people from themselves.

We obviously vote for what are, on the face of it, very different parties (I'm a Lib Dem) but it seems we have a lot of similar thoughts on this stuff.

I'm very pro personal freedom, but my background is in science/medicine and sometimes it's amazing to look at the numbers and realise that some stupid, petty intervention that reduces levels of smoking/drinking/obesity/whatever by just a couple of % would save hundreds of lives. But it's still going to come across as stupid and petty and piss grown-ups off... tough call.
(if only my degree was in PPE, I'd know how to make these decisions Grin)

Hakluyt · 14/12/2014 23:24
claig · 14/12/2014 23:46

'where you ... draw the line between personal freedom and the state's responsibility towards protecting people from themselves'

It is essentially about the level of risk and harm and whether that harm harms wider society or not and to what extent. It is similar to the free speech argument. You have to balance the good of free speech with the harm. Authoritarian states, Stasi, Big Brother and nanny states often restrict liberties under the pretext of doing it for the citizens' own good. New Labour wanted to introduce DNA databases and biometric ID cards for our own good.

The positives of seat belts outweigh the negatives (although some campaigners campaign against the mandatory wearing of seatbelts because they feel differently, but if a campaign is not backed and funded and does not have press coverage then it generally loses).

The nanny state (which is mainly progressive) tends to extend its reach little by little. There was a time when Conservatives were against the nanny state, but we have a different type of Conservative now - Cameron and the modernisers who are Conservative in name only. Cameron wanted minimum alcohol pricing and plain paper cigarette packaging. But the People's Army opposes Cameron and says no

"– UKIP opposes ‘plain paper packaging’ for tobacco products and minimum pricing of alcohol."

The People's Army is the home of the anti-nanny state defenders of liberties, it opposes the modernisers and the progressive encroachment on liberties (apart from the new Establishment type politically correct factions of UKIP) where the progressive state seeks to disproportionately limit freedoms.

The progressives usually seek to restrict the liberties of working people to smoke and drink (based on arguments of harm), but paradoxically they seek to liberalise drugs. The traditional conservatives and the People's Army take the opposite view. They see the harm of drugs to society as a whole as an immense danger and think that the harm ruins thousands of lives and they want to limit the supply of drugs and punish dealers with harsh punishments etc in order to stop the supply.

Farage usually has his finger on the pulse of public opinion, he has a natural gift to understand the public mood, he is in touch with the majority, but on this issue of drug liberalisation he is out of touch with the majority and out of touch with the People's Army. I think it is because Farage operates on gut feel and on this one he has not got the feel, not got the touch.

On drug liberalisation you have the progressives for it - the Establishment, Branson, Russell Brand, Nick Clegg etc. and the non-progressive Farage. Against it you have the People's Army, the Daily Mail, traditional conservatives and Old Labour working class.

On this issue the People's Army says that society is more important than the individual since the harm is so great, whereas usually the People's Army is for the individual over the state.

What is so fascinating about the UKIP phenomenon is that it represents the silent majority, the "common sense" majority who are voiceless and powerless against the much more powerful Establishment, liberal progressive metropolitan elite and the Tory modernisers. For once there is a party that represents this huge silent majority and these people now have a party that represents their values. As Farage said

"But if you really have had enough of the political elite. If you really have had enough of poor policy making, unchecked migration, unavailable school places, immense strain on the national services, our EU membership, our extraordinarily large foreign aid budget and more… then you don’t have to vote that way anymore."

The BBC's excellent John Humphrys says it today in the Mail on Sunday

"And he said BBC employees are unable to understand the concerns of ordinary people because they typically have ‘sheltered’ middle-class lives and are overwhelmingly ‘liberal Oxbridge males’.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2873484/Radio-4-s-John-Humphrys-admits-BBC-ignored-mass-immigration-fearing-branded-racist-critics.html

UKIP represents the values of millions of people who for years were denied a voice by the liberal elite. The liberal elite imposed nanny state policies and could laugh at the public because the public had no champion, but everything has changed, now they have Farage.

"This is perhaps Nigel Farage’s most potent line of attack: that the liberal, metropolitan elites who hate ordinary Brits and employ foreign nannies have stitched up the political system, rigged the economy in their favour, ripped off their parliamentary expenses and are laughing at us all behind our backs."

The metropolitan elite never saw it coming, they never thought the people would have a champion, they always mocked the Daily Mail. But now they are stunned by UKIP

"So this is now the scenario; if Labour does not organise to tackle the UKIP threat, convince voters that we are the right choice in a General Election and expose the horror of five more years of Cameron and Clegg, then in 344 days time, the Labour Party in Essex will be on the brink of electoral extinction."

labourlist.org/2014/05/ukips-success-in-essex-shows-the-scale-of-our-challenge/

We're tearing up their lawns and they don't know what to do.

"Their tanks are digging up my lawn," Sarah Champion, Labour's MP for Rotherham, told the Today programme this morning. Ukip are in Doncaster today for their annual conference, with Labour firmly in their sights, and that party is beginning to worry."

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Hakluyt · 15/12/2014 10:02

Where do you stand on the use of words like "poofter" "chinky" and "peasants" ( the last with particular reference to "a peasant shoot")?

claig · 15/12/2014 10:29

I said on the other thread that UKIP should get rid of him and they did in the end. I don't like insulting language and people insulting others. What I, and the People's Army and the legendary "OOKIP" woman, are against is the condescending, patronising, out of touch metropolitan elite. "OOKIP" woman told them what they could do and the People's Army are right behind her.

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Hakluyt · 15/12/2014 10:35

So you do think people should be politically correct, then?

claig · 15/12/2014 10:51

No because political correctness is the control mechanism that the metropolitan elite use to shut down any criticism or opposition. They enforce their control via it. That is why UKIP and Farage are not politically correct and the People's Army is against it because we are the opposition to the elite. We dare to oppose them, we say the emperor has no clothes and so does Farage and that is why they don't like him because he upsets their applecart, he "tears up their lawns", he breaks their cosy consensus and gives voice to the people's concerns.

"Proudly anti-intellectual, the People’s Army knows what it is against (banks, bankers, toffs, Brussels, immigration, human rights, political correctness, busybodies, jobsworths and Little Hitlers)"[["Proudly anti-intellectual, the People’s Army knows what it is against (banks, bankers, toffs, Brussels, immigration, human rights, political correctness, busybodies, jobsworths and Little Hitlers)"

www.conservativehome.com/highlights/2014/12/the-five-tribes-of-ukip.html

Political correctness is not about being rude to people, as the Esatblishemnt and the metropolitan elite claim, it is about challenging their consensus, breaking through their restrictions, expanding their imposed Overton window, saying that their emperor has no clothes.

We don't believe in their man-made climate change, we think they are wasting our taxpayer money on some of their Establishment celebrity backed charidees, and their ring-fenced foreign aid, we don't agree that their ID cards are "for our own good", we don't believe they have our interests at heart when they set minimum alcohol pricing and tell us not to smoke in parks. We think they are laughing at us and that is why they call us "politically incorrect" because we are their opposition, we don't accept their consensus.

"And he said BBC employees are unable to understand the concerns of ordinary people because they typically have ‘sheltered’ middle-class lives and are overwhelmingly ‘liberal Oxbridge males’.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2873484/Radio-4-s-John-Humphrys-admits-BBC-ignored-mass-immigration-fearing-branded-racist-critics.html

If we don't agree with their liberal consenus, they say we are "politically incorrect".

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Hakluyt · 15/12/2014 10:58

"No because political correctness is the control mechanism that the metropolitan elite use to shut down any criticism or opposition. They enforce their control via it."

How?

claig · 15/12/2014 11:11

'How?'

Social control, othering, ostracism, exactly how the townspeople in Hans Christian Andersen's tale, The Emperor's New Clothes, treated the little boy at first when he told the truth that the emperor had no clothes. "You mustn't say that, it's not allowed". They won't allow you.

It is a control that is a social self-control, a predefined Overton window that you are not allowed to breach, it is behavioural conditioning and it seeks to increase its reach.

Political correctness is the real reason why UKIP are rising. The people have had enough. Lord Ashcroft understood it, he discovered it. The elite can't understand it, they don't get it, they think it's stupid, but it is about freedom.

"OOKIP" woman represents it, "they can all go and stuff themselves".

"Lord Ashcroft: voters defecting to Ukip because they are fed up with political correctness

Voters are defecting from the Conservatives to Ukip because they are fed up with political correctness, not because of Europe, Lord Ashcroft said today."
...

"Certainly, those who are attracted to UKIP are more preoccupied than most with immigration, and will occasionally complain about Britain’s contribution to the EU or the international aid budge," Lord Ashcroft wrote on his ConservativeHome blog.

"But these are often part of a greater dissatisfaction with the way they see things going in Britain: schools, they say, can’t hold nativity plays or harvest festivals any more; you can’t fly a flag of St George any more; you can’t call Christmas Christmas any more; you won’t be promoted in the police force unless you’re from a minority; you can’t wear an England shirt on the bus; you won’t get social housing unless you’re an immigrant; you can’t speak up about these things because you’ll be called a racist; you can’t even smack your children.

"All of these examples, real and imagined, were mentioned in focus groups by UKIP voters and considerers to make the point that the mainstream political parties are so in thrall to the prevailing culture of political correctness that they have ceased to represent the silent majority ."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/9752197/Lord-Ashcroft-voters-defecting-to-Ukip-because-they-are-fed-up-with-political-correctness.html

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Hakluyt · 15/12/2014 11:15

What do you want to say that you are not allowed to say?

claig · 15/12/2014 11:22

The Establishment will try to destroy UKIP because we are the opposition. And they will do it by trying to force it to become politically correct, to accept their consensus and to shut up.

Farage is invited on TV but they want him to be shouted down and be heckled and insulted by Establishment comedians, they think that will force him to shut up and give up and be politically correct and stop "tearing up their lawns" and become just like "all the rest" who are "all the same" who are "all in it together", who all want to switch our street lights off after midnight to "save the planet" and who all want to stop us buying 2 for 1s of alcohol at Lidl and who all want to set minimum alcohol pricing all because they "care" about us, all "for our own good".

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Hakluyt · 15/12/2014 11:23

What do you want to say that you are not allowed to say?

RedToothBrush · 15/12/2014 11:28

The funny thing about the Kerry resignation is the fact that in October they deselected him as the candidate for South Basildon and East Thurrock so they could have a contest, between him, Neil Hamilton and Natasha Bolter.

Its only after Hamilton got discredited because of allegations of dodgy expenses which Hamilton claims were the result of dirty tricks within UKIP themselves with rumors swirling around about it being a result of dickswinging rivalry with Nigel feeling threatened by Neil.
as if his political career wasn't littered with enough controversy as it was and having been ousted from Tatton on an anti-corruption ticket by independent candidate Martin Bell. Yes this is the same 'obviously not part of the corrupt Establishment' Hamilton who surprise, surprise went to Cambridge and got 'his lawn torn up' by the 'People's Army' of Tatton (which is hilarious in its own right, if you are familiar with the constituency of Tatton)

and Natasha Bolter got embroiled in the Roger Bird improper sexual advances fiasco and being discredited by UKIP themselves

we'll ignore the accusation of harassment and give the benefit of the doubt here, however this still leaves the fact that Bird thought it ok to have a romantic relationship with a potential candidate and how that might be, well, a little bit inappropriate in its own right

that Kerry suddenly - again - became the endorsed candidate (with Mr Hamilton's blessing) for South Basildon and East Thurrock.

I do really feel for the official in charge of vetting candidates trying to weed out 'suitable' candidates from the fruit loops. Clearly these three were thought a good idea which really must really depress UKIP HQ both because the quality of candidates is obviously so shocking and because the official in charge of vetting is admitting he's having trouble publically.

I'm sure we'll hear the usual 'Its a conspiracy from the Lizards to discredit UKIP' speech from fanboy Claig we'll ignore the accusations from Hamilton about being ban-jaxed from within for Claig's benefit.

Meanwhile the rest of us will ponder the complexities of organising a piss up in a brewery UKIP style. You couldn't make this shit up for a sitcom without it being viewed as too far fetched even by most extreme and off the wall satire writers.

Please tell Nig to keep up the good work.

claig · 15/12/2014 11:31

'What do you want to say that you are not allowed to say?'

That's the whole point, the People's Army say it because we are not "politically correct". "OOKIP" woman said it to the eager, keen BBC reporter on assignment to meet the people, she told him straight, she said "the other lot can all go and stuff themselves".

He'd met the people. They weren't "politically correct".

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Hakluyt · 15/12/2014 11:33

"the other lot can all go and stuff themselves". So this is the sort of thing you want to say and you are prevented from saying by the politically correct establishment? I honestly don't understand.

What would you like to say that you are not allowed to say?

RedToothBrush · 15/12/2014 11:34

Oh and obviously the sudden rise in racism is down to the over prescribing of pain killers by the NHS according to UKIP.

I guess reducing this would be a good policy to have to reduce spending in the NHS.

claig · 15/12/2014 11:35

'You couldn't make this shit up for a sitcom '

You are spot on. "UKIP the Movie" would be the best comedy ever. You could have a field day with it. But as much as it is a laugh, it also deals with things that are profound and that will change our country over the coming decades. It is a revolution, not the Establishment promoted ersatz Russell Brand one, but a real one, a people's revolution.

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RedToothBrush · 15/12/2014 11:35

Just don't tell the Tory this, or they'll nick it for their manifesto.

RedToothBrush · 15/12/2014 11:35

*Tories

Hakluyt · 15/12/2014 11:36

What do you want to say that you are prevented from saying by political correctness?