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Original poster

Bus companies are not required by law to force parents with buggies to make way for wheelchair users

466 replies

DuelingFanjo · 08/12/2014 11:12

story

First Bus wins wheelchair court judgement - Bus companies are not required by law to force parents with buggies to make way for wheelchair users in designated bays on vehicles, senior judges ruled.

Might be a controversial opinion but I am glad.

OP posts:
OOAOML · 08/12/2014 13:33

The bus company here will issue a ticket to people who get off the bus with their buggy to make room for a wheelchair user, that they can use to get on another bus without having to pay again. We also have a lot of buses now that have a wheelchair space and a buggy space.

I don't envy bus drivers if they have to enforce vacating the space - I've seen some pretty appalling behaviour towards drivers. On the other hand how do you legislate for basic decency? We could go back to having conductors on the buses so that the driver had someone there for back-up (might also stop people putting their feet all over the seats) but I don't imagine people would be happy to pay the increased fares to cover that.

Maybe there should be a law requiring bus companies to provide options like we have here (issuing a ticket to the person who gets off) but in areas that don't have frequent services there are still going to be issues if people don't want to clear the space. They could go all draconian and refuse to carry certain types of pram/pushchair (ours tried that for a while - it didn't work well).

I really don't know what the answer is here. In an ideal world, everyone would be considerate, people would help parents to fold if they needed, and everyone would be able to travel. But we don't live in an ideal world - but whose responsibility do we make it to police this?

TheFairyCaravan · 08/12/2014 13:54

*I think one important point is always overlooked in this debate.

And that is that buggy pushers didn't choose to roll on, roll off. They didn't choose to be in competition with wheelchairs for spaces.*

I can't believe you just typed that out WUME. The only people here without a choice are the wheelchair users. The parents with the pram have a choice, they can fold but they choose not to.

curiousgeorgie · 08/12/2014 14:05

I think it's a bit unfair to say if you can't fold a buggy, you can't take the bus.

I drive but a couple of weeks ago had car trouble and had to take the bus (it's been so long I didn't even know I couldn't use money to pay!)

I have a 2 piece pram, and I couldn't physically carry both those pieces, my bag and my child all at once. And if I could, there was nowhere to put them.

So what's the alternative? People with babies don't go on buses? Honestly, what are they supposed to do? Not everybody has a baby that will go in a sling, for example.

And if a wheelchair user gets on, and the person with the buggy has already paid, do they have to get off and pay again on another bus?

I'm not saying I disagree... But isn't there an alternative where there were perhaps 2 spaces?

TheFairyCaravan · 08/12/2014 14:12

When mine were little if you couldn't fold the buggy you couldn't take the bus, so we folded the bloody buggies, walked or stayed in!

Why is it so bad that people with babies can't do what they want? People with disablities are now going to have to not do what they need or want because of this ridiculous ruling and they campaigned for the space in the bloody first place!

TSSDNCOP · 08/12/2014 14:16

georgie I that particular scenario I think you've got to hope like hell a wheelchair user doesn't get on. But if they did, I'd push the pram as far down the aisle as possible and prepare to have to manoeuvre it if someone wanted to get off.

Otherwise surely if you're a regular bus traveller you buy yr pram/buggy for its ease of collapse.

I can see why the court has reached its conclusion, but I also think it takes a particular kind of entitled arsehole not to bend over backward to avoid making the life of a wheelchair user even more difficult.

lunar1 · 08/12/2014 14:19

I think it's shocking that the bus companies have avoided all responsibility for solving the problems that both wheelchair users and pushchair users face.

Rather than pit one group against the other busses need a redesign so that any new ones built can accommodate more of both.

immortalwife · 08/12/2014 14:28

I think I would move if possible, but the buses I get on actually state that the spaces are for buggies or wheelchairs. (Big sign saying buggy/wheelchair friendly and stating what space is for in bus). Also, don't have much money (would the bus driver be refunding me on the spot so I could get another bus?) have hyper mobile syndrome (I can't stand about for long periods of time) , and wouldn't fancy getting off half way to my destination to then be late. (And my buggy does not fold well- two parts + wiggly toddler + shopping = impossible)
My best friend is wheelchair bound. She gets out of the house a good half hour before she actually needs to set off because most of the buses where she lives don't even have ramps. She isn't about to sue them over it, she knows how many accessible buses there are and accepts that mums need to travel too.

However I feel that this outlook will be somewhat controversial.

Pico2 · 08/12/2014 14:35

Slightly off topic, but all if these debates seem to be based on the premise that there will be another bus along in 10 or 20 mins. How does this all work in rural areas with perhaps 1 bus an hour (if they turn up) or 1 bus a day? What happens if there is one more wheelchair user than spaces on infrequent buses? Leaving aside buggy users.

Samcro · 08/12/2014 14:38

"I think it's a bit unfair to say if you can't fold a buggy, you can't take the bus. "

I think it is unfair that a person in a wheelchair can't get on the bus at all.
a wheelchair is not a choice.

curiousgeorgie · 08/12/2014 14:39

Yes, it's not always so simple as just moving. My friend has twins and I know she doesn't drive but still has to get around and do shopping etc, she couldn't possibly fold her double pram and carry both children.

In an ideal world no one would inconvenience anyone else, but it really must be difficult sometimes.

SunnaClausIsComingToTown · 08/12/2014 14:42

Our buses have a wheelchair space and 3 buggy spaces. I can't understand companies that buy buses with just one larger space.

Perhaps a chain and padlock across the wheelchair space would be a good idea. And it's only removed by the driver to allow a wheelchair access.

curiousgeorgie · 08/12/2014 14:43

Samcro - a buggy isn't entirely a choice. Not everyone can use a sling, some people are childminders with no choice over what buggy to use... Are these people less entitled to get to their destination?

OOAOML · 08/12/2014 14:49

I have in the past had to give my baby to someone else to hold whilst I folded the pram. That's an option. Or I have on occasion got off the bus (but admit I am lucky to live somewhere with frequent buses).

TheFairyCaravan · 08/12/2014 14:50

I think if you know that you are regularly going to take the bus and need a buggy, you are a special kind of self-entitled arse to buy one that is not easy to fold, in two parts or can't be folded, tbh.

I think that non-disabled people don't have a fucking clue what it is like to be disabled, which is understandable, but what I don't understand is why they don't want to learn. Why not listen for a bloody change? It is always the same people over and over again arguing the fucking toss on these and disabled toilet threads.

Samcro · 08/12/2014 14:55

pmsl at not having a choice of buggy
sorry but come on.

curiousgeorgie · 08/12/2014 15:11

While I'm glad I made you 'pmsl'... Could you explain how a mother with twins who has no choice but to get a double has a choice? Or a childminder or nanny who are given the buggy with the job... Should they buy a new one?

Luckily I drive, but actually I have a really bad back and my pram was a gift... I would actually have no choice but to use it.

Samcro · 08/12/2014 15:13

only when you tell me how someone in a wheelchair can be cured so they don't need the space.

curiousgeorgie · 08/12/2014 15:16

I didn't say they could be cured so it's not up to me to prove that.

However, you did say that buggies were a choice, so go for it with convincing me?

AliceinWinterWonderland · 08/12/2014 15:18

No choice over what buggy to use?? Confused

People survived just fine folding their buggies before. People will do so again, if they need to. Your idea of "choice"is a bit muddled, I think.

TheFairyCaravan · 08/12/2014 15:18

I have a really bad back too, so bad I couldn't use a frigging buggy now. I can't walk unaided, and have to spend increasing time in wheelchair, which incidentally causes me pain.

I don't go out on my own because I need to be in and out in the quickest possible time, so go out with DH and the kids. If I had to sit on the side of a road in the cold waiting an hour between buses for one to come along with space for me I'd be in absolute agony.

But that poor Nanny with her buggy that came with her job! Hmm

curiousgeorgie · 08/12/2014 15:19

I'm well aware what 'choice' means.

If someone has no means to buy their own buggy and is gifted one, and has no car, should they not take the bus because they can't fold it?

curiousgeorgie · 08/12/2014 15:21

TheFairyCaravan - that's very sad, but why does that mean you're more entitled than someone who also needs to get somewhere and has no choice but to use the buggy she was given along with her job?

Samcro · 08/12/2014 15:23

cos what kind of buggy/pram you get it a choice.
we are talking about 1 space on a bus.
I would presume if there was someone with twins, another person would have to fold.
as for the childminder bit, thats a job.
people do not have a choice to be in a wheelchair.
(anyway bored of this now, I have signed a petition. can't be arsed to keep arguing this with the temporary able-bodied, and glad people. not folding make the person selfish and entitled.)

SauvignonBlanche · 08/12/2014 15:24

No pram choice? That's really scraping the barrel of ridiculous excuses for preventing wheelchair users from accessing the wheelchair space. Hmm

TheFairyCaravan · 08/12/2014 15:25

And actual lol at you having no choice but to use your gifted pram Georgie! You do have a choice, and you did replace your pram! I remember the bloody long thread about it!