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Original poster

Bus companies are not required by law to force parents with buggies to make way for wheelchair users

466 replies

DuelingFanjo · 08/12/2014 11:12

story

First Bus wins wheelchair court judgement - Bus companies are not required by law to force parents with buggies to make way for wheelchair users in designated bays on vehicles, senior judges ruled.

Might be a controversial opinion but I am glad.

OP posts:
Sirzy · 08/12/2014 11:51

Bus drivers should refuse to move until people move. If people become aggressive then that is the time they can call the police.

Sirzy · 08/12/2014 11:53

And why does that ruling say "if it is possible"? Unless another wheelchair/special needs buggy is in the space then it is possible to vacate it!

FrauHelgaMissMarpleandaChuckle · 08/12/2014 11:54

If the legislation is non-enforceable, then it's useless.

TheFairyCaravan · 08/12/2014 11:55

I don't buy that the bus driver can't not move on until they have either moved, folded or got off because of the chaos it would cause.

If there were a someone on the bus being racist, aggressive, homophobic, were drunk, or threatnening they wouldn't move until the police or whoever came, so what is the difference?

Flywheel · 08/12/2014 11:56

Agree with sirzy. This will make things worse. As we know, from this and previous threads, a sizeable minority feel entitled to use these spaces with their buggies. Knowthey know the law is on their side (even if it's morally questionable). Disaster

ThinkIveBeenHacked · 08/12/2014 11:58

I dont often use the bus, and my pram isnt really bus friendly - carrycot and chassis plus newborn and a three year old means any reason for me to have to fold the buggy it is easier for me to get off the bus. So I tend to use a sling on the occasions I use the bus.

Wheelchair users need the space. Buggy pushers more often than not can fold their buggy and hold the baby, but sometimes this (as in my situation above), is near impossible. Common decency means the more able should make way for the less able.

Bus drivers shouldnt have to deal witg this though: they just want to drive their bus.

Samcro · 08/12/2014 11:58

Flywheel too true.
sad isn't it

SauvignonBlanche · 08/12/2014 12:00

I agree, it's a disaster, you can just hear it now, "I'm not folding, you can't make me". Sad

Original poster
DuelingFanjo · 08/12/2014 12:00

"Bus drivers should refuse to move until people move. If people become aggressive then that is the time they can call the police."

seriously though, you think this would work?

A friend of mine once ended up with a wired jaw for asking another person to pick up their litter. it's all very well raising kids who challenge inequality but they also have to be aware of when it may be dangerous to intervene.

In this cas I assume the bus company (And the judge) has to think about the safety of their drivers and other passengers.

OP posts:
5madthings · 08/12/2014 12:01

I am disgusted by this ruling. Can it/Will it be challenged? I bloody hope so.

Lweji · 08/12/2014 12:01

Unless another wheelchair/special needs buggy is in the space then it is possible to vacate it!
Or the bus is too full. It does happen.

Original poster
DuelingFanjo · 08/12/2014 12:01

Have to say - I never took a buggy on a bus. I was too scared because they are always so full/ Sling or sat on my lap all the way.

OP posts:
NoLongerJustAShopGirl · 08/12/2014 12:08

I use the bus to get to work, to get to appointments and to get to places I need to be in a certain amount of time - no I would not be happy for the driver to just stop and wait - and no, I am not willing to put myself - or require other untrained people to be put - into harm's way because of it - sorry if that causes moral outrage, but I am not fit and capable of taking on another person should things "kick-off".

but, saying that, despite almost DAILY use of buses for about 32 years I have NEVER come across the situation happening - and I have seen many people fold their buggies for wheelchair users to use the space.

maybe I am just lucky enough to live in a well-mannered area?

hazeyjane · 08/12/2014 12:08

The reality is that, as an example, when someone like ds and myself catch the bus, if there is already 2 buggies/prams on there, and they are asked to fold to let us on (ds uses a sn buggy which doesn't fold) hopefully they will just fold. If they don't - because after all there is no legal requirement for them to do so - then that is it, the bus driver can shrug his shoulders and say, 'sorry love' and we will miss our hospital appointment or whatever. If the ruling was in place then the bus driver would be able to say to the buggy users 'I'm afraid you will have to fold your buggies as this is a wheelchair space', and if they refused, then he could ask them to leave the bus - if (in the unlike event) they became aggressive, then as a previous poster said they would have to call the police (just as they would if anyone became aggressive for any other reason)

AliceinWinterWonderland · 08/12/2014 12:09

It worked quite well in London a few years ago when we were on a bus there. Driver turned off the engine, calmly told the woman "Move. I am not starting this bus up until you do." She sat it out for a few minutes, people started getting grouchy, and people started teling her to move. She caved and moved. Driver started up the bus and moved on.

But with this ruling, honestly, I might as well EVER forget getting on a bus with ds1 in his wheelchair, as the buses here are always full of pushchairs.

hazeyjane · 08/12/2014 12:11

nolonger I use the bus to get to hospital appointments with ds, and we had occasions where people have had to fold, people have moaned about folding, and where we have been unable to get on the bus and missed appointments - it does happen unfortunately.

AliceinWinterWonderland · 08/12/2014 12:14

I assume then that the government will no longer be pushing those with disabilities that require the wheelchair spot on the bus to be working if they're on benefits at all, or putting them in the "need to find work" category, as you have to be ON TIME to retain a job generally, and this will blow it utterly out of the water for some.

Samcro · 08/12/2014 12:15

AliceinWinterWonderland that is a very good point

TheFairyCaravan · 08/12/2014 12:15

Especially with the new criteria for PIP Alice. Disabled people are fucked!

AliceinWinterWonderland · 08/12/2014 12:17

I give it a week before there's an article in the paper about someone in a wheelchair that missed their "fit to work" assessment appointment because they couldn't get on the bus due to this, and now all their benefits have been sanctioned. A week. Tops.

Samcro · 08/12/2014 12:17

nad have you seen the new rules for motorbility?

AliceinWinterWonderland · 08/12/2014 12:18

No, I haven't seen the new PIP criteria or the new rules for mot. Link please if you don't mind? Although I dread even looking. Hmm

YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually · 08/12/2014 12:19

I can see this thread going the same way as the last.

If you have a pushchair you have the CHOICE to fold it. If you are sitting in a wheelchair you do not have any choice. Why don't people understand this?

It's very sad that public transport is effectively denied to wheelchair users and we are sent the message that our needs come last.

AliceinWinterWonderland · 08/12/2014 12:23

All the comments after the article saying "oh well, if the bus is full, too bad." and "it's fair if someone is already in the wheelchair spot".. but no, it's not full and it's not fair. I'd like to see the buses go to requiring all pushchairs to fold, except for pushchairs that are specifically for SNs/disabilities.