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Tory MP Mark Reckless defects to UKIP

956 replies

claig · 27/09/2014 14:42

Panic in elite circles

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 12/10/2014 12:19

Farage is a dangerous man. He's pushing a lot of the buttons with a section of the electorate that is frightened of foreigners and resentful in general. He's exploiting a weak opposition and an unpopular government but has no real solutions of his own that stand up to any scrutiny. Unlike Nick Griffin who played exactly the same hand and got it wrong, he's the grinning, self-styled 'acceptable face' of nationalism, promising England for the English etc, but European politics has been here before in the 1930s with disastrous results. Like Marine Le Pen in France, the people behind him are thoroughly nasty pieces of work. Racist, duplicitous, misogynistic, hypocritical.

claig · 12/10/2014 12:25

That is what the liberal elite think. Cameron called UKIP fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists. But that is not what the majority of the people think. He is already the poltician with Britain's highest approval rating and he is not even in Parliament yet.

They threw everything they had at him in the EU elections and he beat them and Cameron says they will throw everything they have got at UKIP in Rochester, but I think the people will vote UKIP there too.

It's going to be a fascinating election. It's real democracy. A choice that isn't the usual Labour/Tory TweedleDee and TweedleDum.

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claig · 12/10/2014 12:50

These are Farage's words again.

When you read them, you can see why the elite are worried. They will try more smears because that is all they have got. There will be a Project Fear 2 where all of Labour, Tory, the LibDems and the media will do their best to spread fear about UKIP.

I don't know who is going to win. We know who usually wins, and yet we still have hope. But as Farage says

"I am aware of the hopes invested in our party by millions of patriotic, decent and hardworking men and women. It is a huge responsibility."

"The public are demanding a change to the immigration system that only Ukip is prepared to provide. The other parties just offer spin and people hate being played for fools.

There is a great whoosh of energy around Ukip these days. The metropolitan media, which has hitherto been desperately slow on the uptake, turned out in enormous numbers in Clacton on Friday morning. They had just discovered what millions of voters have known for ages: the People’s Army is on the march.
...
I am aware of the hopes invested in our party by millions of patriotic, decent and hardworking men and women. It is a huge responsibility. It is not only our right to seek election into the House of Commons in May, it has also become our duty to succeed. Too many people have been too badly let down by the political establishment for far too long for failure to be an option.

All roads now lead to Rochester & Strood for the by-election that Mark Reckless triggered when he joined us. Team Dave will throw their kitchen sink at us – and lots of unpleasant items they keep in it. But if Mr Cameron continues to tolerate the smear campaign being waged against Mark by his lieutenants, he risks setting off an even bigger wave of support for Ukip.

We are not the finished article yet. We must and will continue to work on our weaknesses as well as build on our strengths. But what a long way we have come in the past couple of years. We are fighting to win your country back from political elites at home and abroad.

We want to make politicians once again the servants of the people and not their masters. We want to make them accountable to you. We know that you never stopped believing in Britain – neither did we."

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2789592/nigel-farage-did-win-don-t-play-fools.html

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claig · 12/10/2014 13:00

I wouldn't be surprised if when all else fails that the elite will put in a desperate midnight call to Gordon Brown begging him to deliver a barnstoming speech for them to save the Tory party.

But in England that will be laughed out of court like a wet balloon.

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 12/10/2014 13:30

I think the majority of people do see through the UKIP bluff and bluster and don't need anyone to tell them what is really behind the grinning facade. I also think there is a significant number of people who are dissatisfied with the status quo, don't like various changes in society, are the type who begin sentences with 'I'm not racist but....', or 'I'm not homophobic but...' and see UKIP as a way to legitimise their general fears and insecurities.

claig · 12/10/2014 13:53

"I think the majority of people do see through the UKIP bluff and bluster"

Well, we'll see in Rochester in Kent in several weeks' time. My guess is UKIP will win again. I disagree with you about who really forms the majority. The FPTP voting system allowed the cosy two party cartel but even the very good Electoral Reform Society boss said on Sky today, that she thinks that system is over. We are heading for a new system due to the rise of the small parties and a loss in support of the big two.

UKIP has really ignited this issue over representation and now all the politicos and progressives are having to talk about it. Everybody now says that the elite does not represent the people. Just now on Radio 4, the excellent Labour peer, Maurice Glasman was discussing the same subject on the news. He is looking at how to give people a greater voice. But as far as I understood it he was talking about more committees and bodies where ordinary people are represented. But that is not good enough, because there are millions of us who don't want to serve on committees, we want to get on with our jobs, but we want a voice, we want a vote, we are sick and tired of being run by politically correct progressives on committees who preach and lecture us and tell us how much alcohol we can drink, how many eggs we should eat and which way we should think on the plight of the polar bear.

The only solution is local referenda and national referenda where we can vote and where our elected representatives follow our wishes, not their own or those of lobbyists that they are friendly with.

People have now had enough, they are out of their box and they are voting UKIP for change. No amount of smears from Cameron and the cronies are going to stop the people's wish for change.

We are heading for a PR system in my opinion because the FPTP is no longer fit for purpose in representing the will of the people in what the head of the Electoral Reform Society called our multi-party system.

Once PR is here, and expect the elite to try to prevent it with every fibre in their body, then I think you will find that the people's choice will be very different to the spinners who run us now.

Clacton was a landslide, I think UKIP will win Rochester and I think there are millions of voters who never believed that they would ever see the day when this metropolitan progressive Oxbridge elite would have had its day and that ordinary people's opinions would be considered and listened to. Once they see that happening, they will all jump on board. There will be so many landslides and earthquakes that a better democracy will emerge - one that represents the people and respects what they have to say.

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claig · 12/10/2014 14:00

'are the type who begin sentences with 'I'm not racist but....', or 'I'm not homophobic but...' and see UKIP as a way to legitimise their general fears and insecurities.'

The people who said that were the ones who were frightened to express their real feelings and concerns for fear of being deemed "politically incorrect" by the metropolitan elite. They aren't racists but they had fears over immigration. Any discussion of those concerns was shut down by the progressives.

But all that has changed. Labour Party canvassers are saying that immigration came up on the doorstep all over their constituencies. People are no longer frightened to voice their fears.

UKIP is the party that has broken the politically correct barrier that was used to silence the people so that they could not express their concerns. But UKIP has broken that barrier, people are now saying what they feel and UKIP is listening and that is forcing the rest of the parties to listen to.

This is what Farage said and there are many people in Clacton and all over the country who agree with him.

"No wonder those who have to earn a proper living and strive to pay their own bills and are not prisoners to political correctness find that Ukip is a party they can connect with and be proud to support."

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 12/10/2014 14:02

'Politically correct progressives' means what? Those who have made our society better by making it more culturally diverse, banning smoking, letting gay people get married, abolish hanging, etc?

It's not enough to prey on the fears ordinary people have about change and promise to wind the clock back 50 years.

claig · 12/10/2014 14:19

''Politically correct progressives'
it means the liberal elite that Trevor Philips was talking about on the Andrew Marr Show. The liberal elite who do not represent the majority of the people (as is easily evident if you just add up Tory and UKIP votes in opinion polls).

'It's not enough to prey on the fears ordinary people have about change and promise to wind the clock back 50 years.'

It's not going back 50 years, it's going forward 50 years where for the first time ever the people will decide and have a voice rather than being run by an unrepresentative liberal elite sofa government of chums and Charlies from Eton, Fettes and Oxbridge (where a large proportion of them all happen to have a PPE to boot).

Let's have some ordinary people up there with a bit of common sense, then we can start to sort out the problems that affect ordinary people in this rich country and end the scandal of the destitution of Jaywick that was shown on our TV and end the plight of the poor woman shown on TV up North who has only £15 a week for food to live on and still smiles and has hope, while Oxbridge and Eton millionaires use public funds to heat their stables or dig their moats.

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 12/10/2014 14:20

Farage is not an ordinary person.

claig · 12/10/2014 14:26

Let's have democracy, let's have PR, let's listen to the people.

That's why I and many others are voting UKIP. We have all had enough of these politically correct spinners who don't give a stuff and we want change and not more of the same.

The climate change activists were right about one thing - there actually is a tipping point, but not the one that they talk about. The people have passed the tipping point, they have had enough.

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claig · 12/10/2014 14:28

'Farage is not an ordinary person.'

Of course he isn't.

He is extraordinary which is why he has achieved a miracle in giving a voice to millions of ordinary people who had lost hope that they would ever see the back of these Eton toffs and politically correct spinners who run our country.

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claig · 12/10/2014 14:52

This is Farage again with his finger on the pulse

"And perhaps worst of all, they are all run by cliques of college kids who know little of the real world."

Lots of people may not mind, but there are millions of us who are fed up of being lectured by the same old faces, from the same old colleges, using the same old spin.

There's got to something better than this. It's a great country, a rich country with brilliant people. Surely there is something better than that lot of Herberts?

We think the People's Army is the answer. If it's not, then we will vote them out too. We won't give up, we won't lie down because we want a better future with a political class that listens to rather than lectures us.

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 12/10/2014 16:12

A Dulwich College toff isn't materially different to an Eton toff.

claig · 12/10/2014 16:30

George Orwell went to Eton and was a man of the people. It's got nothing to do with where you went to school, but to do with how you think and what you believe.

Farage is not politically correct, the liberal elite all are and that is why they are so divorced from ordinary people.

Here is Andy Burnham now talking of the divide after UKIP has blown it open wide

"Just as in Scotland, the same clear message rang out of Clacton and Heywood and Middleton – people are fed up with politics and the self-serving Westminster bubble.

As someone who splits his weeks between Westminster and Leigh, I know the gap feels like a million miles and is getting wider."

www.mirror.co.uk/opinion/news-opinion/labour-knows-nhs-key-issue-4423749

Most of the people in Clacton think Farage is a great guy but they don't think the same of some of the liberal elite and it is not about where they went to school or how much money they have, it is about their mindset and whether they are on the people's side or not. Farage is, the spinners aren't.

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claig · 12/10/2014 16:45

"Ukip strategists believe the party can win Braintree in Essex, the seat of former charities minister Brooks Newmark who resigned this weekend after being exposed in a sex scandal.

Nigel Farage was understood to be “excited” to learn Mr Newmark had quit parliament. While the town was not initially on the party’s target list, Ukip’s membership is growing rapidly in Essex.

The removal of an incumbent MP gives the party a chance of victory, a source said.

“It has a lot of the same sort of traits as Clacton, similar people with similar hopes and aspirations,” a source added."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11157023/Is-Labours-Austin-Mitchell-the-next-Ukip-defector.htmlv

Braintree has a 16,000 Tory majority. I'm much nearer to Braintree than to Clacton and I can definitely say that UKIP could take Braintree. This is Essex, we are all hardworking people and strivers who are aspirational and the whole county of Essex is natural UKIP territory.

“It has a lot of the same sort of traits as Clacton, similar people with similar hopes and aspirations,” a source added."

What the politically correct spinners are going to be shocked to discover is just how many millions of people have exactly the same hopes and aspirations.

That is why I say we are witnessing the end of the Tory party and the birth of a new party that will challenge Labour from the South of England to the North. All of the people have the same hopes and aspirations, we are all the same, we all want change.

Essex used to be a Tory heartland, we voted Thatcher, but we aren't Tories anymore. They abandoned us and we have moved on. We're in the People's Army now.

The latest Survation poll has UKIP 25%, Labour 31%, Tory 31%

My guess is that UKIP will win in Rochester and everything that the Tories have got to throw at UKIP won't be nowhere near enough, because I am sure that the people of Kent have the same hopes and aspirations as the people of Essex.

Then there will be a new Survation poll, and then the panic and mea culpas will really begin, when UKIP comes out as number 1

Sit back, pour yourself a dink and watch the spinners spin, it's going to be fun.

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 12/10/2014 16:47

I'm sure the People's Army will look great in their brown shirts. Hmm

claig · 12/10/2014 16:48

They were the ones who spun, now we've got them on the run just like in 1381

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claig · 12/10/2014 16:50

'I'm sure the People's Army will look great in their brown shirts.'

That is exactly what the spinners will be lining up on TV to say, but to their utter dismay, they will watch their votes just ebb away.

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claig · 12/10/2014 17:29

'Scrap the Climate Change Act to keep the lights on, says Owen Paterson'

www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/11156113/Scrap-the-Climate-Change-Act-to-keep-the-lights-on-says-Owen-Paterson.html

All the spin is crumbling, all the modernisers' dreams are vanishing into thin air, wiser heads told them they should never have gone there.

MPs will break ranks, the People's Army's tanks are coming over the hill. They're on their lawns, tearing them up, the spinners are feeling ill.

There'll be no more talk of hugging huskies, there'll be no more riding bicycles with ministerial cars in tow, all the spin and crap will have to go.

This is serious now, there's an election coming up, the spinners can hear the bell toll, they know the game is up.

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 12/10/2014 17:32

I'm not bothered about spinners tbh, I'm simply dismayed at the conversations going on around me at the moment. Listening to 'kippers' it's like being held hostage in the back of a cab driven by a chatty cross between Alf Garnett and Bernard Manning. It's depressing

Be careful what you wish for

claig · 12/10/2014 17:45

There is nohing to fear, those are just smears put out by the parties that are going to lose. The British people are a fantastic people - fair, tolerant and decent - don't believe any smears to the contrary put out by spin machines.

This is all about listening to the people and serving the people.

"Ed Miliband must “listen” to the people he wishes to represent and pledge to hold an in-out referendum on Britain’s membership of the European Union, according to a veteran former Labour shadow cabinet member and party leadership contender."

blog.peoplespledge.org/2013/09/23/labour-veteran-urges-miliband-to-back-eu-vote/

For 5 years none of them were bothered, but now they are all ears as the election nears.

That is the great thing about democracy, they have to start listening because ultimately they are acountable to us ordinary people, the ones who suffered their spin.

Farage once again

"We want to make politicians once again the servants of the people and not their masters. We want to make them accountable to you. We know that you never stopped believing in Britain – neither did we."

That's what it's about. Carswell goes around Clacton saying to the voters who work hard everyday, many on low pay "You're my boss". Let's see if that's true let's see how they do.

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claig · 12/10/2014 17:58

UKIP started off as a band of motivated amateurs who cared, who gave a damn. They started from nothing and worked tirelessly for years with little success. They were laughed at, mocked and called all the names under the sun. Cameron piled in, Tory bigwigs laughed at them. But they carried on because they cared, because they believed and beause they never lost hope.

Now their tanks are tearing up the lawns of the spinners who moked them, but they aren't laughing now.

I hope UKIP never lose their amateur spirit beause that makes them just like us. I don't want slick, professional spinners who are on message, I want amateurs from the Latin amare, people who really care.

This is all about the people, all about us, all about our voice, all about democracy. That is why it matters. Get out and vote. If you don't like the People's Army then vote against them, but get out and vote and play your part in history.

There are millions of hardworking decent people in this country who have been shafted and stuffed by this out-of-touch elite on expenses and whaever else, like the woman up North on TV who has only £15 a week for food to live on. Make these spinners stop spinning and make them start listening and start working for us instead.

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 12/10/2014 17:59

It's not 'smears' but personal experience. People I thought were better and more intelligent are suddenly emboldened by UKIP and passing on disgusting racist/jingoistic/xenophobic FB messages, for example. They're talking openly about 'sending the buggers back' and 'getting our country back'. They are not having intellectual discussions about immigration and EU membership.

claig · 12/10/2014 18:13

Of course there are some people like that. But that is not Diane James, that is not Louise Bours, that is not Douglas Carswell, that is not UKIP.

And 'getting our country back' is not getting it back from immigrants or foreigners, it is getting it back from this politically correct liberal metropolitan elite that rules us and ignores us and patronises us, that is all. It means putting it back into the hands of the people and not the elite.

This country is all of ours - immigrants, foreign nationals and British born - we are the people. It is our country and getting it back is making our voice heard in a democratic system where each and everyone's vote counts and where we are listened to and not ignored by an out-of-touch elite.

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