Tory MP Mark Reckless defects to UKIP

[claig]

Panic in elite circles

How handy! Using that criteria you can rule people in & out as you please!

I need to get me a system like that.

Paddy Ashdown, the establishment spinner, has understood what is happening.

"I suggest these two old leaders go away into a quiet room, these two leaders of the old parties, go away into a quiet room this afternoon and play a game of join the dots because if they don’t realise that there is something very close to a national citizens revolt against Westminster – it may be that the Scottish revolt, near revolution, may go away but I rather doubt it listening to Mr Salmond earlier on and his, in my view, entirely justifiable anger. Now join that dot with the other dot, Farage and UKIP running a campaign against Westminster and the Westminster elite and you’ve got to realise that this is a profoundly dangerous moment, a moment by the way that I’ve been warning was coming for ten years now as the gap between government and governed grew."

www.libdemvoice.org/paddy-ashdown-warns-of-national-civil-revolt-as-gap-between-westminster-elite-and-people-grows-42507.html

People are not voting UKIP bbecause they are establishment or because they are metropolitan elite, they are voting for them because they aren't.

Shami ought to put her house in order before entering into a debate on a subject she doesn't understand

Why all this talk about donors? Di you want to talk about Len McCluskey NAND Labours union funding or the Tories funding from big corps or even the funding that the EU gives to the BBC?

Paddy is right but he's talking into the wind.

It's clear and simple . what started as an anti EU party has now morphed into a movement to restore some common sense into the way this country is run and in order to do so we need to leave the EU.

We need to start making our own laws instead of adopting all the EU directives. We need to be able to control or borders instead of having to admit every citizen if the EU. We need to be able yo refuse entry and deport foreign criminals without being overruled by the ECHR. We need to decide who we permit to vote without being gold that criminals and that doesn't include criminals.
We need to stop paying £53 million pounds a day to an undemocratic organisation that it's own auditors have failed to declare financially above board. we need to stop sending millions of pounds of our tax payers money to foreign dictators, despots and to countries that can afford their own space program's and nuclear weapon development program's. we need go stop trying go bomb everyone we don't agree with into submission and start to develop some sustainable foreign policies.

Thatls what UKIP is all about. Peope are pissed off to the back teeth with the abuses I detailed above and as Lib Lab Con are fling nothing to stop these abuses we are looking at alternatives - UKIP

So all of you that keep banging on about UKIP has no polices please read above and you'll see a few that I've mentioned.

But if you'd rather continue to bleat on about who's funding what and how dopey UKIPs are for not voting for Dave because well get Ed, as I have said before we don't care. They are all the same. They will all perpetuate the abuses I write about above.

As Ukip have misrepresented themselves to 'the 'people' for 20-years, that THEY could bring the UK out of the EU and stop immigration, the only Ukip 'difference' is they have lied 100% of the time, on the ONE policy they had, knowing 100% of the time they could never deliver it, winding people up alone the way - what a record.

If they can't be trusted to deliver their CORE EU policy, why do they deserve a Westminster MP in office when EVERY general election they change their manifesto to attract THEIR targeted voters from the Conservatives and Labour etc, and ditch them a year later.

The only way for 'the people' to judge both sides of the EU debate is via a YES/NO EU Referendum in 2017, with both sides putting their case, hopefully with more FACTS than in Scotland - and that can NEVER happen under Ukip in a month of General Elections.

Ukip's policies just spread dangerous anti establishment and nationalistic propaganda, like the Front National in France, like those in Germany in the 1930's - but with a Farage smile and pint in his hand to disarm their true intent..

'Different' is coming up with new innovative ways to govern, new innovative policies and ways to spend the UK's ministerial budgets on the NHS, Education etc getting more for less - not just bitching about the other parties policies in a 'drip,drip' drip' of propaganda, that history shows works so well in times of recession, BUT ALWAYS ENDS UP WITH 'THE PEOPLE' WORSE OFF IN THE END.

Isitmebut

Your record's stuck

Your record's stuck

Your record's stuck.....

Do you get paid more for working weekends or late evenings?

Claig

I see Nigel now has a real tank!

Yes, I have seen the article Farage says that if UKIP win in Heywood & Middleton, then Miliband will be gone by Christmas.

WetAugust …. Offering the facts, I don’t need to be “paid” to worry about the consequences of a Ukip on me, my family and this country, that despicably after 20-years saying how urgent it was to be OUT of the EU, no longer cares as it craves Westminster ‘power’, ensuring ‘the people’ won’t get an EU Referendum.

Surely it’s the Ukippers spouting lies, mistruths and propaganda that HAVE to be paid to do it, as selling a Ukip with so little talent within, they have to BUY sitting MP’s before the General Election, it can’t be down to ‘conviction’ - well in the political sense of the word.

Europe is in an economic and jobless slump and expected to remain so for another year, so yet MORE EU economic migrants will come here year after year, not just from the poor countries, but the core Eurozone countries as well, to share in our economic success - UNLESS the UK does something about it VIA A REFERENDUM – that Labour only needing 31% of the vote to form the 2015 government, will not give us.

As our NHS has already come under so much pressure from the several million more users i.e. 90 million more GP appointment requests and overspill to A&E, we spending £12 billion more since 2010 are struggling to cope, as those European countries in economic and debt dire straights i.e. Spain, Portugal and Greece, have seen THEIR NHS BUDGETS SLASHED by 3% to 17%.

Voting Ukip threatens a UK Referendum on the EU and our ability to turn back the economic migrant tide, our economic recovery, therefore our national spending budgets like the NHS – but OFERS US WHAT in return?

With a few Ukip MP’s, will our £75 to £100 billion annual budget deficit and spending restraints be smaller?

With a few Ukip MP’s, will our National Debt of £1,400,000,000,000 disappear like magic?

With a few Ukip MP’s, what will ‘change’ other than more Farage self promotion in our parliament, from the party who turned from what it stood for over 20-years?

All I can see for this country in 2015 under a Labour formed government and a few Ukip MP’s is MORE EU, MORE economic migrants (until our economy pan holes to the shit level in Europe), and without the tax receipts from UK GROWTH, UK taxes going ever up to fund what we CURRENTLY can’t afford.

*WetAugust/Claig .... Farage has a ‘tank’ alright, and voting Ukip will ensure the UK economy goes right in it, for exactly what in return??

everything in your last email Isitmebut just screams that we should be put of Europe

We elect Govts to do the best they can for a country so given the dire description of the UK you have just painted while shackled to a dying Eu corpse I expect our Govt to leave the EU now. No referendum, just leave in the best interests of the country.

In a UK split 50/50 on being in the EU and NO GOVERNMENT has ever taken the time to explain the pros and cons, once put IN, it would be undemocratic if there was not a referendum to leave.

Ukips quest for Westminster power means they have turned their back on the UK, on their core issue, as they WILL ensure a Labour government in 2015 and with no referendum debate, 'the people' will never know the truth - as it means a Labour with boundary advantage (and god knows what else after 2015) will remain in power for at least another 10-years.

The United Kingdom Independence Party, that stopped a Conservative majority in 2010, now seeking Westminster power should put the UK first not their political ambitions, and first allow a 2017 EU Referendum - and then go for Westminster seats in 2020, with something REAL to brag to the country on what THEY DID to obtain for the UK - the policy so many voters have so far trusted THEM to deliver, that Ukip knew they never could on their own.

Farage's Ukip have to decide what is more important to them, the ONE policy they stood by for 20-years, or a few poxy Westminster seats that will won't change a thing for the better, especially our EU membership.

The United Kingdom Independence Party through Farage gained legitimacy, votes, and MEPs for ONE reason, that through the UK leaving the EU, they said many of our problems would go away, especially open door EU immigration.

If Ukip TAKES AWAY the right of ‘the people’ to have an EU Referendum and focuses on the negatives of immigration, knowing full well that unless Cameron can negotiate EU reforms on lowering immigration, by UK law as a member of the EU we have to adopt EU ‘openness’ to work in other countries – then Farage is setting the UK up for Ukip vote winning multicultural strife unprecedented in this county, but is increasing in the Uk and throughout Europe.
“Islamic State and Rotherham abuse ‘fuelling far right backlash’.”
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29204170

The multicultural UK and the voters within, by marginalising Ukip in it’s early days - and in the taking away of the BNP’s political legitimacy as a whole - REJECTED the policies of a National Front type party.
“Ukip Founder Alan Sked Says The Party Is 'Morally Dodgy' And 'Extraordinarily Right-Wing'”
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/11/26/ukip-founder-alan-sked-morally-dodgy_n_2190987.html

So now does Ukip now believes that with Westminster ‘legitimacy’, plus voter negativity on what Ukip can’t change on the economy/debt, but can help change by allowing an EU Referendum, the time is now right to pull away the possibility of a Referendum by ensuring Labour form the next government for THEIR OWN political power – whilst telling voters they are FOR referendums, for votes?
“UKIP backs direct democracy and use of referendums”
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27973093
“Nigel Farage has said UKIP wants to give people direct democracy - with referendums to decide some policy.”

If Ukip Carswell’s mantra policies for ‘change’ have no innovative solutions to our deficit, national debt and other key social issues, other than allow Ukippers through the de-selection of sitting Mps making tough decisions to be replaced by far right wing Ukip MPs with soundbites – the UK economy would slowly crash and there would be social and economic anarchy, the breeding ground for votes and full outing of a New Ukip.

The Uk’s problems are huge, and whether in Westminster we have Johnnie Eaton or Stig of the Dump in power, they won’t get any smaller, never mind go away, so voters need to concentrate of policies solve them and records of delivering them, and leave the policies of any National Front party, back over the channel.

'and whether in Westminster we have Johnnie Eaton or Stig of the Dump in power'

That's the trouble. We have got both of them in power. That's why the people of Clacton voted UKIP and that's why the people want Farage in Westminster to make a change.

Don't take it from me, take it from a man who knows a thing or two, and is running rings around Johhnie Eaton, Stig of the Dump, Ed Balls and Grant Schapps.

"People want change," said Nigel Farage, UKIP's leader. "They've had enough of career politicians of three parties who don't even understand the problems they face in everyday life."

www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuters/article-2788097/Anti-EU-party-ends-UK-politics-targeting-left-right.html

So in your opinion the Uk 'change' from the 'Westminster elite' Ukip are poaching and hedging their bets with, to keep Ukip momentum up to the General Election, is what - if not a British version of the French Front National offering nothing but attacking the status quo, the electorate rejected in the past?

If Ukip's solution to 'career politicians' trying to tackle our economic/social problems is to adopt a new CORE policy of anti immigration (rather than leaving the EU) to get votes, where will that take our country?

'The problems of everyday life' due to a global recession and the UK with third world debt and spending a £100 billion more than we earn, can no more be fixed by an ex City oil speculator than a career politician - so the suggestion Ukip Can without any detail, goes beyond disingenuous.

UKIP only accept candidates from the tired old establishment parties and Westminster elite if they pass a rigorous check to see if they have that rare quality in Westminster - common sense.

That is why most of the Westminster elite will never be accepted into UKIP however much they long to join it. UKIP have standards and they stick to them.

The change that will deliver results to the people is pure, spin-free common sense, the sort of thing that Farage displays every time he opens his mouth.

There will be huge cuts in the metropolitan modernisers' ring-fenced foreign aid budget, the modernisers' HS2 plan will be scrapped, green taxes will be slashed and windfarms subsidies will be cut. It's common sense and the reason that it has not been proposed by the PPEs before is because common sense is in short supply among the political class.

You saw how Farage ran rings about the top spinners in the land in Clacton. Wait till he gets into Westminster. You ain't seen nothing yet.

Claig . to Ukip in 2010 wanted 3 new electrified train lines, now oppose HS2 (which would improve the norths economic growth over time) and want to claw money back with Scotland, so is a race divisive Ukip now wanting to divide the UK economically, north versus south - or do you need to grow up and stop flip flopping policies for populist votes?

The "common sense" things you mention are not so smart and would bring in diddly squat NOW to reduce our deficit, e.g. are those capitalist HS2 providers demanding the FULL cost of what would be paid for annually over a decade or so at least?

How can Ukip be 'spin free' if campaigned for 20-years that they could bring the UK out of the EU when they with 24 MEPs could never change British law to do so - and now betrayed all those voters by targeting Westminster seats, as EU immigration will rise due to our economic recovery?

And as to Ukip membership and the equally sized fall of the BNP's a few years back, 'I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a Member'.

'I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a Member'.

Why do yo think that the people are not voting Tory? They wouldn't join any club that had you as a member either?

And as for the Pimlico Plonker, he is a member, but possibly not of the Tories.

Farage has got the Westminster elite so worried that they are out of touch with the people that it wouldn't surprise me if they were all paying the Pimloco Plonker for elocution lessons.

"Mind you, this bleedin’ bonkers vice is by no means confined to Labour politicians. Over the past fortnight, the Tory and Lib Dem conference platforms have also been littered with Ts and aitches, elaborately dropped by upper-middle class orators attempting to crank down their accents by a social notch or two.

In fairness, I ought to record that one exception was George Osborne, who seems wisely to have ditched his clunking experiment with mockney, which exposed him to such cruel ridicule last year (all right, I was among the many mockers). Perhaps next year he’ll take another step towards rejoining the human race by abandoning his new Venusian hairstyle."

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2787336/TOM-UTLEY-Swearing-Speaking-common-It-s-bleedin-bonkers-posh-politicians-desperate-sound-prolier-thou.html

They'll do anything to win a vote, even listen admiringly to the Pimlico Plonker.

Is Ukip’s ‘change’ just promoting negativity for votes on anti immigration, anti politics, anti politicians, nationalism and populist policies difficult with our deficit/economy to deliver, ‘it’ – and haven’t we seen that elsewhere in Europe?

The only political change in the UK I can see from a Ukip betraying their ‘leave the EU’ voters, will be a more concentrated politics of hate to dissatisfied voters looking for magic solutions to their problems.

FYI France’s 3rd largest party the National Front under the ‘softer’ approach to nationalism Ms Marine Le Pen, has 23 MEPs (to Ukip’s 24) and in September this year, won their first two seats in the French Senate which she laughingly called “a breath of fresh air”.

So with Rochester to come and in the bag, Farage’s ‘new’ Ukip similarity to Frances Front National will nearly be complete – once they are CONFIRMED in 2015 as the UK’s 3rd largest party, and thanks to Ukip ensuring no referendum, have no option to leave the EU, that is.

sorry Claig. Osborne was still at it yesterday when he was talking about Ebola. It was funny because he started normal and then remembered to go all estuary.

Good comedy value

But Ed takes it to another dimension and us barely coherent. You cannot do proper estuary with his nasal twang

' You cannot do proper estuary with his nasal twang'

Absolutely

Parris is at it again. He says it's the voters who are out of touch with the politicians. can't link and don't have subscription.

That should win UKIP a few hundred more votes

Bookies have UKIP 1/3 and Tories 3/1 for Rochester

WetAugust .,, Parris can't be far wrong if Farage's platform of 'change' and 'immigration', is contradicted by UKIP's inability to tell us what that change is AND allowing pro EU/immigration Miliband to form the next government, where the Lib Dems politically/ideologically are their obvious coalition partners.

Farage is either deluded or again lying to voters in pretending UKIP 'change' will be via a coalition, or working with, one or two socialist parties in parliament.

Farage says ‘UKIP could hold the balance of POWER’ at the next election’
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29572185

^"We've got a chance here in a general election next year that is likely to be very tight, in an election in which no one party is likely to have a majority. If UKIP can keep this momentum going, we could find ourselves next May in a position where we hold the balance of POWER."

The IMF and global stockmarkets (which are a Leading Indicator or economic conditions by 6-months or more) are telling us there will be another global economic slowdown, with Europe triple dipping into recession.

*The LAST thing 'the people', businesses and jobs need next year is massive economic uncertainty affecting us from beyond our shores AND massive political uncertainty of unwieldy coalitions unable to take key decisions on our economy - just so Farage and Carswell can have "power".

A lesson for Rochester?

”Douglas Carswell UKIP win ‘a crying shame’ for Clacton”
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-29565948

"The victory of UKIP's Douglas Carswell in the Clacton parliamentary by-election is "a crying shame", according to a mayor in the constituency.
Iris Johnson, the Independent mayor of Frinton and Walton, said she did not think Mr Carswell would effect change.

"By going over to UKIP, he's got no party backing now. How's he ever going to get anything done? He'll just get outvoted every time," she said."

Still Farage getting POWER rather than the UK getting an EU REferendum MUST be big picture worth it to 'the people' of Rochester, eh.

Isitmebut

I am starting to detect a groundswell of opinion against Eds leadership within the P arty stalwarts. there has been a lot of interesting bits on the web today from Labour politicians and Labour commentators saying quite clearly that Ed should go. Even Jack Straw has been ridiculing him. I actually think that Ed may stand down There is still time. I think Labour has realised that Ed is totally unelectable, even by Labour's own core voters.

If Ukip's message is that we nt to reclaim our country then Labours message is that they want to reclaim their party from New Labour.

I can see the Tories getting in at the GE. labour cannot count on getting their usual Scottish cohort of MPs and with Labour voters staying at home in England and Wales, the Tories would be the largest party. I have factored in the Libs crossing to Lab, but a lot of Lab are all so crossing to UKIP so that cancels itself out

These are some of the most interesting times in politics. Tonight Lord Ashcroft has tweeted something about the right time for jumping.

Now if he jumped it would be game over.

Why would Ashcroft jumping be 'game over' for Conservatives, as UK businesses faced with a 2015 global recession and higher Labour taxes, together with domestic social and political anarchy - would pile money faster onto the Conservative election campaign than Dave could count it.

At the next General Election, NOTHING will galvanize the CORE Labour and Lib Dem votes that the PROSPECTS of a power mad further right wing than Conservatives racist party (UKIP) holding the country as a political hostage - and as Labour only need 31% of the vote to form the next government, they will win DESPITE Miliband, as the Labour voter lesser of two very different evils. IMO.

you and I know that it's nothing yo do with % of the vote at Ll and everything to do with the decisions of a few hundred swing voters in a few dozen marginal constituencies.