Tory MP Mark Reckless defects to UKIP

[claig]

Panic in elite circles

'Cameron' and 'pledge'. There's 2 words that when put together equal fuck all.

Delusional prat is still whittering on about withholding some dosh from Merkel while holding the UKs cheque book ready and open.

Meanwhile, back in the real world

Junckers has been implying that Dave speaks with forked tongue.

Junckers has been dissing Dave very badly according to the Telegraph.

UKIP ahead of Labour in Dover.

That nice Lord Ashcroft has confirmed in his most recent poll that I live in a 3 way marginal with Tory, C on and UKIP which probably means that there will be quite a tussle over this seat at the GE. So might get to do some politico sleb spotting outside the local Aldi.

Oh and guess who funded the poll telling us that we benefit from EU migration. go on Go on. have a guess. It's not difficult.

As Daniel Day Lewis said 'There will be blood' when the parties have to deal with the GE aftermath.

WetAugust …… the ‘drip, drip, drip’ of ignorant anti EU and anti Cameron propaganda, from the UKIP whose Westminster MP agenda no longer wants the UK out of the EU, as what would the point be of a UKIP?

UKIP tell us that Cameron has no chance of getting EU reforms, which is fair enough, they are not alone in thinking Cameron is pushing a reform stone uphill against 27 other countries – so you’d think that a UKIP/Farage who has said that ‘he would do a deal with the devil’ to GET a UK REferendum, would be getting UKIP, with their ex Conservative voters, fully weight behind an EU democratic vote.

So how can anyone trust the integrity of a United Kingdom Independence Party that on the one hand tells us that ‘UKIP BACKS DIRECT DEMOCRACY’

“UKIP backs direct democracy and use of referendums”
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27973093

“Nigel Farage has said UKIP wants to give people direct democracy - with referendums to decide some policy.”

But on the other hand UKIP/Farage would rather the UK economy is destroyed by a return of the Labour Party and coincidently give UKIP power in Westminster, THAN GIVE UKIP VOTERS THE DEMOCRATIC VOTE TO LEAVE THE EU, which if the UK voted OUT, would put Farage and his talent less merry band of MEP’s redundant.

“Farage backs Miliband for PM; UKIP wants Labour to win the next General Election because it fears Cameron could win an EU Referendum.”
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2793688/farage-backs-miliband-ukip-want-labour-win-election-fear-cameron-win-eu-referendum.html

• Ukip have conceded privately they would prefer Labour to win next election
• Party thinks a PM Miliband less likely to win a referendum than Cameron
• Ukip claims it now poses an equal threat to Labour and Conservative
• But pollsters say a Ukip surge is likely to hand Labour victory over Tories

UKIP/Farage is more worried about its well paid taxpayer salaried scam, than what a 2015 pro EU Labour administration would do the UK economy, and by Labour leaving in place ‘English votes, for English policies’, ensure England get legged £££££ over by Scotland.

don't want paid maternity leave? paid holiday entitlement? minimum wage? vote Ukip
fight the power with Marlborough College educated investment banker Farage
stop the elite with a slightly different elite

Farage went to Dulwich College.

Video of Jacob Rees-Mogg, nearly the only good Tory canidate left in that party of modernisers, campaigning in Rochester. He meets the legendary UKIP candidate Winston McKenzie among other things.

"Although the Kippers are theoretically his enemy, they greet him by name and tell him he’s the only Tory they would ever vote for.

One man cries out “You’re in the wrong party, Jacob!” as he walks past. Another loudly congratulates him on his forthcoming defection. When informed the cameras aren’t rolling, he grins and says: “It was worth a try.”

Even Ukip’s Winston McKenzie, host of Ukip's disastrous "carnival" in Croydon earlier this year, calls him “mate”.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11213086/Rochester-and-Strood-by-election-Conservative-Jacob-Rees-Mogg-and-son-take-the-fight-to-Ukip.html

Good article by Rod Liddle in the Spectator on the appeal of UKIP and why Labour's days may be numbered.

"Immigration is undoubtedly a critical issue, and especially so among former Labour party voters; blue-collar workers of a certain age. But I suspect that the real pull of Ukip in England is that the party, and Mr Farage particularly, are seen as a corrective to the vapid, flaccid, spineless, politically correct and wholly London-centric mitherings of what, until May next year, we must call the main three parties. That is also why Ukip does not do terribly well in London itself — despite its leader’s long immersion in the Square Mile, making sacks of wonga, Ukip has become the anti-London party. Its views on such stuff as immigration, wind farms and to an extent smoking, gay marriage, Islam and so on, are not so much ‘right-wing’ as simply ‘not London’.
...
It is the London establishment, and its fatuous and self-serving shibboleths, which is loathed throughout the rest of the country, in a way which has not quite been seen before, even if there was always a certain divide. The London of Cameron, Miliband and Clegg, and the BBC and Channel 4 and the quangos and extremely well-fed and gobby third sector institutions, and the lawyers and the bankers; the establishment.
...
Labour is perhaps more a party of London, these days, than either the Liberal Democrats or the Conservatives. It is led, ineptly, by someone who is almost the personification of effete, metropolitan-liberal milquetoast opinion (and yet who represents Doncaster, because Doncaster’s a safe seat, for a while). The party has become upper-middle-class and southern — all the while still raking in the votes from its old redoubts in the post-industrial north of the country. I wonder how long it will be able to do so. There is already evidence that Ukip is gnawing away at the voters who have been Labour all their lives but have now had enough. And look at the latest opinion poll from Scotland. Ipsos-Mori suggested that if an election were held now, Labour would lose all but four of its 40 seats in Scotland, including the seat currently occupied by Douglas Alexander. Hell, you’d need a heart of stone not to laugh, wouldn’t you?
...
One suspects that this disaffection with Labour will, sooner or later, spread south of the border. The Scots are ditching Labour for the SNP because the SNP has tenure; it can win elections, it can rule. And while politically they may have little in common, the same tranche of thoroughly hacked off blue-collar workers south of the border might soon consider that Ukip has the same sort of potential. And then where will Labour be?"

www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/rod-liddle/9361412/ukip-is-a-party-for-people-who-hate-london-thats-why-labour-should-be-scared/

Labour MP Tom Watson says what I have been saying for some time

"UKIP victory in Rochester by-election could spell end for Conservative Party"

Labour Politics Panel member Tom Watson MP says Nigel Farage's nihilist force could see the Tories sink after a century and a half of electoral supremacy
...
In two weeks' time, the people of Rochester look set to have a great parting with David Cameron’s Conservatives.

Commentators always overplay the significance of by-elections. This time though, they’re right. The Rochester by-election is unusually important, particularly for the Conservative party.

The Conservative party, a grand old institution, the roots of which date back to Robert Peel and the Tamworth declaration of 1834, is facing an existential crisis.
...
David Cameron’s attempts to modernise his party, through ideas like the big society and liberal reforms such as gay marriage, has alienated a large section of his political base.

One unintended consequence has been that many Tory activists, now including Members of Parliament, put their energy into UKIP.

Cameron seems incapable of dealing with the rise of UKIP. He is paralysed by indecision
...
It is for this reason that I believe that a win that gives UKIP their second MP threatens the very future of the Conservative Party for the first time in over a century and a half of electoral supremacy.

Yet Rochester is also a watershed election for Labour too. Recent polling shows that the NHS is the most important issue for the voters of the Medway - not Europe, not even immigration, not gay marriage nor the economy.

Despite this, the polls suggest UKIP is still ahead. They have managed to become the ‘all things to all people party’, projecting themselves as being the natural successor to the Conservatives and to a lesser extent, Labour.
...
Rochester may not have buried Dickens, but in two weeks' time, after UKIP agitation, the voters there might well bury David Cameron."

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukip-victory-rochester-by-election-could-4581994

Wow!
Exactly right.

The Conservatives are finished because they are politically correct modernisers.

But this spells disaster for Labour too, because they are the politically correct party par excellence and the next election after this one will be a battle between the people's party (UKIP) and the politically correct party (Labour) and there can only be one winner.

It's been an interesting drag watching both main parties self destruct with a little help from the media. It's also descending into farce as each trues to prove that they are more together than each other.

But the big message remains - the old parties are no longer fit for purpose.

In fact UKIP has more policies that appeal to old Labour than Ed currently has.

It's becoming a great soap opera

• will Ed get the sack and who in their right mind would replace him in these circumstances. - well Chuka would

• will Dave get the boot after Rochester?

• will UKIP soar and die before May?

• will Dave give Angie the dosh this side if Christmas?

All we need now is Dirty Den and we can rerun Eastenders 1987

WetAugust … there is nothing wrong with the old parties, they over very different political, ideological and social solutions to the UK’s many problems, in a very unstable world - so any new party has to show substance over gobby rhetoric, or they will make the UK’s problems worse for ensuring unstable/unworkable coalition UK governments from here on.

All UKIP offers is ‘The Cult of Farage’, offering unsuccessful sub standards MP candidates of their own, within a political party that for 20-years lied to voters re the EU to obtain MEPs for £££ personal gain - and flips dodgy General Election manifestos and policies like a cheap burger bar – but now sees the real money/power in Westminster.

“Ukip leader Nigel Farage boasts of his £2m in expenses
Farage used EU allowances to finance his euro sceptic message”
www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/may/24/mps-expenses-ukip-nigel-farage

“Nigel Farage calls for MP pay rise to £100,000 - just weeks before announcing where he will stand in 2015”
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-calls-for-mp-pay-rise-to-100000--just-weeks-before-announcing-where-he-will-stand-in-2015-9593756.html

Claig …. Unfortunately for you (and this board), as you don not appear to follow politics, policies and time lines too closely, just keep posting reams of others ignorant opinions because they highlight your own, gets no where near the facts.

Clearly it is in the propaganda called UKIP, to make out all political parties are the same, yet the majority of ALL the problems of today, that gave rise to a UKIP protest party and dissatisfaction in politics generally, WAS DURING THE WATCH OF A LABOUR GOVERNMENT OVER THEIR LAST 13-YEARS ADMINISTRATION.

Under Labour from 1997 -2010; the EU/immigration dynamics changed within the UK, we had the expenses scandal, we went to war in Iraq on a lie, so did our banking, financial, debt, economic, social, unemployment pensions, and housing problems etc etc etc – ALL for the worse, from the Conservative legacy handed over in 1997.

The Conservatives as the main incumbent party, within a coalition government fixing all those problems are unpopular FOR fixing the damage done, at a time when UKIP were more worried about the burqa and publishing policy dross called their 2010 General Election manifesto Farage later rubbished – so the Conservatives as the party this country relies on to grow our way out of trouble, is far more relevant to the next decade, than a clueless UKIP no better for the UK economy, than the BNP.
news.sky.com/story/1200525/nigel-farage-disowns-ukip-manifesto-as-drivel

UKIP will win Rochester, but as this was a very good calculated bet, by the UKIP financial backer Wheeler WHOSE FTSE IG INDEX SPREAD BETTING BUSINESS IS TO MANAGE PUNTER RISK, so with a talent less bunch of ‘kippers proving unable to win a Westminster seat by themselves - what better way to win seats is there than buy the sitting Conservative MP the constituency knows/trusts – leaving the Conservatives to scramble around to present a new candidate_ face, yet to build their own electoral relationships.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Wheeler

Any commentator/poster who cannot work out the significance of that slippery corporate ‘art of war’ tactic to keep the momentum of a clueless political cult going, by a UKIP Treasurer who manages punters for a living, is plain dumb.

As is anyone who foolishly believes that UKIP has any solutions to the UK’s problems in 2015, and that the Conservative party NOT responsible for the UK’s 1997 to 2010 problem but are slowly fixing them - is the only hope to get the UK back on track, rather than pan hole like the rest of Europe.

cult of change.

You really need to understand that Dave wants to stay in the EU. He said so yesterday. asked if he could diver foresee recommending an exit -he dodged the question as usual, but we all know that Dave would never leave.

Hi negotiations will flounder. Osborne is already telling us that the alternative will be to strengthen benefit qualification tests.

but we know that some ECHR plonker will then decide that we're discriminating. And so the whole sorry can gets kicked down the toad again.

Out is the only way to go.

you should become a doing doctor Isitmebut, trying to tell us that all our EU problems are caused by Labour.

Heath. - Tory took us into the EU, in fact he admitted he lied about the aims

thatcher -Tory gave us the Single Market and with that came the free movement within member stated

Major -Tory signed Maastricht despite his Chancellors admission that he hadn't read the Treaty!

Cameron -Tory, well where do I start? He's handed over even more power despite saying he would have a referendum if extra powers were transferred. He's about to sign up to the EAW. He's got a huge bill that he had forgotten about. he's being ridiculed by Junckers and 2 go his own MPs have quit

and you think it's all the fault of Labour?

Pleeeeeese!

Doing doctor? Should have read Spin Doctor

Andrew Neil is getting irritated with Labour Labourlist Leftie who thinks Labour are the biggest party in Scotland and doesn't understand EU tax law. his solution. - harmonise EU tax laws

so Dave will not have to pay until Sep 15. By which time it will be another 1.7 at least do he'll have an even more difficult time then.

But heigh oh it's after the election, it may be Eds problem then and it kicks the can further down the road.

weak spineless Cameron

Now we're being lectured by fucking Finland

FFS. Grow some Dave

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/532403/David-Cameron-new-EU-deal-ally-calls-open-British-borders-sacred

WetAugust … soooooooo Claig, post after post of misinformation and/or ignorance, clearly designed to turn the page on facts that punch holes in UKIP propaganda.

Cameron and the EU, are you Miliband in disguise, Cameron, like the majority of people in the UK, want to stay in a REFORMED EU, if the EU is not reformed and it still resembles Labour’s expensive, fat, inefficient governments, rather than Conservative ones, - the Referendum gives 64 million people the option to leave, including Cameron, whether he personally wants to be part of an EU or not.

Cameron is standing up to the EU, what does Farage do with 24 MEP’s at great taxpayer expenses, makes himself look like a BNP thug, making useless, nay stupid gestures, getting his bunch of talent less morons to stand and TURN THEIR BACK in a major EU meeting – what a statesman, what a waste of taxpayers money electing those chumps to represent their regions interests while IN.

Labour and the EU giving rise to UKIP, a nice list of Conservative leaders, but WHEN did UKIP get voter traction, back then, or after the EU got a common currency/interest rate and moved closer to a feral super state? Back under Tories, or after Labour’s 2000 push for racial “diversity”, where over a few short years we had an inflow of new citizens not seen since 1066, when we had our own unemployed e.g. over 500,000 16-24 year olds in 2004, a shortage of housing, leaving 5 million needing social housing by 2010?????
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html

Finland Pressy, if you weren’t so BNP ignorant, is saying what I’m telling you, the concept of freetrade/open borders is not such a bad thing as working for others, but as he explained last night ‘Britain should get a medal ‘for allowing as many in as we did in the 2000’s WHEN OTHER EU COUNTRIES DIDN’T, so of course we got more than our fair share, but who’s fault was that, also looking to increase the rate of NON EU immigration at the same time???? Certainly not any Conservatives on your list, fool.

Clearly if you weren’t so far up the cult of Farage, you’d understand the facts of why the events of the 2000’s gave rise to UKIP, just like other far right political parties across Europe e.g. France’s Nation Front, and understand the ONLY way forward on the EU, is to have a Conservative Referendum, rather than UKIP numpties in Westminster.

As for previous Conservative governments, opt outs and objections;

The "British problem" and the enlargement of the EEC in 1973
www.historiasiglo20.org/europe/traroma.htm

The absence of the United Kingdom constituted the main political problem that the EEC had to face in its early years. The British government refused to participate for different reasons:

• The importance of its commercial, political and, even, sentimental bonds with its colonies and former colonies, most of them integrated in the Commonwealth;
• Its refusal to join a customs union. The British government defended the establishment of a free trade area, in which the internal customs rights were abolished, but national governments would maintain their competences of enacting their own tariffs with regard to third countries;
• The fact that Britain was totally opposed to embarking on a project whose long-term aim was to surrender the sovereignty of national states to supranational European institutions. In other words, the British were, and many of them still remain, very far from the objective of an European political union.

"After negotiations to integrate Britain in the EEC broke down, the British government proposed the foundation of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA), Sweden, Switzerland, Norway, Denmark, Austria and Portugal joined to that new organisation. It fell far short of any project of political integration, and constituted a mere free trade area."

"Shortly, Britain realized its mistake. Whereas the EEC witnessed a spectacular economic growth, with growth rates in the sixties clearly superior to those in America, Great Britain continued its downward trend in relation to the Continent."

To my mind the big problem of the 1970's, as our industry fell from around 29% of our economy to around 22%, was that the governments thought with UK up to 20 odd% inflation and interest rates, penally high taxes, trade union strikes costing many millions of man hours/output each year - that if we joined a common market of countries without our problems, that somehow we'd muddle through and not lose market share to Germany and (then) emerging countries like Japan.

Wrong, we were known as 'the sick man of Europe', called in the IMF to bail us out in 1976, and then along came Thatcher, who arguably had a tougher job to fix the country than Cameron had - but similarly was hated my millions for taking the tough decisions to get us back on track.

Isitmebut

You must be the last person left in the Uk who us not outraged at the way Osborne tried to lie his way out if this one.

When politicians take the British peoples for fools, more fool them.

The public will exact their revenge.

I see Tory support crumbling away now. You should see the stream of Tories on Twitter who are now divorcing themselves from their party.

Congratulations. You just handed this reduction to Ed.

And stop calling me BNP. I am not and you know that.

You are doing your beloved Tory party a great disservice when you start smearing other posters.

It just demonstrates how comprehensively you have lost the argument

WetAugust ... ALL UKIP do is smear other parties/politicians, as they have nothing of substance to offer other than the cult of Nigel - oh and massive UK political risk for businesses, resulting in a massive economic/jobs risks as our main EU trading partners suffer over the next year and threaten to derail what has been achieved.

As to "losing the argument", if you and other UKIPs minions had not worked out the DIFFERENCE in the 'Westminster elite' policies, especially those via Labour 1997-2010 that GAVE RISE to a UKIP surge as other far right wing parties across Europe, you wouldn't know how to FRAME the argument in the first place.

FYI I am not comparing you to the BNP, I am alluding to the fact that a UKIP with no credible UK domestic policies they stand by for more than a year, who wind up voters on the EU and immigration and pretend they have solutions, is just like the BNP (or Front national in France) - as what is the difference between a BNP and a UKIP that has just undergone a bit of corporate Wheeler window dressing for the past few years?

Your thought process us not just twisted - it's totally mangled.

I cannot continue responding to someone who continues to attempt to smear me, as you insist on doing.

You continue with your mastabatory self-satisfying diatribe.

I'm out.

WetAugust ….. I’m sorry if by explaining to UKIP posters who barrage social media with messages saying ‘they are different’ and ‘offer alternatives’ the truth - that with no credible domestic policies while concentrating on the EU and immigration (not emigration) for votes – that they are NEITHER an ‘alternative’ to the established parties, or ‘different’, as their ‘type’ are gaining traction throughout Europe.

As I’ve explained before, history shows recessions cause huge frustration and disappointment with the established political parties and we have had the worst recession in nearly 100-years, but most of the mistakes on our finances, economy, unemployment and housing were made by ONE party in a time of £££plenty.

So a UKIP taking 2-3 times more Conservative votes than from Labour, when UKIP offer nothing different and the Conservative led coalition ARE fixing our problems, is just plain wrong - and very dangerous for our immediate future and generations to come.

In France they use Farages description of the growth in a far right party, an ’earthquake’, and it is; I just struggle to find an earthquake in history, social or geological, that wasn’t destructive, smelly and made unwelcome changes to the landscape.

If you need proof how 'different' UKIP is, read this, but note UKIP would be getting rid of the party fixing the problems, not a socialist party that CAUSED most of the UK's problems.

'A grave moment for France': National Front sweeps to victory in Paris leaving Socialist government fighting for life - and in Germany a neo-Nazi is elected for first time in decades”

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638965/Massive-victory-French-far-right-National-Front-record-quarter-vote-Euro-elections.html

• FN leader Marine Le Pen heralded victory for 'sovereign people of France'
• Results so far guarantee FN around a third of France's 74 seats
• Prime Minister Manuel Valls described result as 'a shock, an earthquake'
• President Francois Hollande holds 'urgent' talks with ministers after poll
• Germany faces having first far-Right candidate in decades
• Anti-Islamic party wins more than a quarter of vote in Denmark
• Radical left and far-Right in Greece both perform well
• Beppe Grillo's Five Star movement beaten into second place in Italy

“Francois Hollande has held an emergency meeting with his ministers this morning after a far-Right 'earthquake' saw the National Front triumph in France and voters across Europe turn to extremists and anti-EU parties.”

“With 80 per cent of ballots counted, the French interior ministry said that the anti-immigrant party led by Marine Le Pen took 26 percent of the vote, pushing President Hollande’s Socialist Party into third place with just under 14 percent.”

“It is the first time the party – which wants to cut immigration drastically and reduce the influence of Islam – has come first in a nationwide election in its 40-year history. Results so far have guaranteed the party around a third of France's 74 seats in the European Parliament.”

“Right-wing parties also gained ground in Austria, Demark and Greece, early poll results suggested.”

“German chancellor Angela Merkel said the rise of right-wing groups was 'remarkable and regrettable' and called for policies that could create jobs and improve competitiveness”.

Utter bollocks.

Since when was New Labour ever socialist?

I think some basic dictionary work is required here.

'Utter bollocks.'

I disagree with that. I think it should be

Complete and utter bollocks.

so far the main effect of the same man (Reckless) offering radical change by being re-elected wearing a different rosette has been lots of activity from Britain First
politicalscrapbook.net/2014/11/britain-first-back-ukip-in-rochester-by-election-paul-golding/

fabulous

www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/cameron-humiliated-as-cbi-chief-attacks-eu-vote-plan.25180163

those who support 'business' might reflect on this