Tory MP Mark Reckless defects to UKIP

[claig]

Panic in elite circles

Why wouldn't you be 'content with their NHS policies', UKIP will never form a UK government for the foreseeable future, so they can say what they want.

Still no one has explained exactly WHAT the difference is in any private sector contract (whether involving our public sector or not) , before and after TTIP, other than maybe protecting their own shareholders against indecisive governments changing spec/attempting to cancel, mid contract etc.

Claig …. That Hitches article is a good one, as it highlights the fact that the EU will not change, so as the Labour/Lib Dems/SNP will never be able to reform it, or ever want to leave, a Conservative Referendum IS the only way out for the UK, democratically or otherwise.

The Conservatives have already promised a 2017 EU Referendum to be included in their 2015 General Election Manifesto, which Cameron has vowed that IF the Conservatives get a majority in 2015, it will happen via parliament - and should he FAILS to get a 2017 Referendum, for the UK citizens to democratically decide, Cameron will resign.

Cameron gave Scotland a Referendum, he is good for it, let 64 million votes decide, not 650 politicians/law makers in Westminster.

www.ibtimes.co.uk/ttip-exclusive-ukip-wants-include-nhs-controversial-eu-us-trade-deal-1470790

so, yes, Ukip supports privatisation of the NHS

juliascurr, William Legge is not the health spokesman and he was contradicted by Louise Bours who determines health policy.

"As the EU looks to finalise a trade and Investment agreement with the USA, Ms Bours will call on David Cameron to support the trade union’s stance that the NHS should be exempted."

www.ukip.org/louise_bours_standing_up_for_the_nhs

"Assembly stunned as MEP Bours backs Unite

UNITE won a surprise ally in the fight to save the NHS from the TTIP trade deal at Ukip conference yesterday — but leader Len McCluskey’s name was roundly booed by Ukip members.

Ukip MEP Louise Bours brandished a letter sent by Mr McCluskey to all Euro MPs about the EU-US deal during her speech as health spokeswoman.

Hundreds of members heckled his name but Ms Bours stunned the hall by claiming the party supports the union’s fight to stop the backdoor privatisation of the NHS.

She said: “TTIP is there for the benefit of one thing only — big business.

“I’ve got a message for Len McCluskey and Unite. Ukip will fight alongside you to ensure the NHS is excluded from this agreement.”

www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-fa3d-Assembly-stunned-as-MEP-Bours-backs-Unite#.VFjLxaJyaic

"Vince Cable has hit out at Ukip for opposing a controversial EU-US trade deal that the party fears would lead to "widespread privatisation" of the NHS.

The Liberal Democrat business secretary launched a robust defence of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) talks, telling the Huffington Post UK: "It does rather expose one of the weaknesses in their position because if you are a true believer in free trade then you want to trade more with the US."

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10/02/ttip-vince-cable-ukip_n_5914040.html

You have to remember that UKIP's TTIP policy shows UKIP's independence from the Establishment, the metropolitan elite and all their mates. The Establishment parties will probably all have to go along with TTIP, but UKIP is independent and for the people and won't.

is that William Legge, 10th Earl of Dartmouth? he's Ukip spokesperson for trade, so he might have a vague idea
fighting the elite with public schoolboy ex investment banker Farage

god help us

Whooooosh ..... as the irony of such comments goes straight OVER our Claigs head. lol.

Juliascurr .... it gets better, when UKIPs main financial backer and internal 'kingmaker', owns a FTSE 250 company.

“Stuart Wheeler (born 30 January 1935) is a British businessman and politician. He made his fortune as the founder of the spread betting firm IG Index in 1974, but is best known for his political activism,[1] being formerly a major donor to the Conservative Party and, since 2011, treasurer of the United Kingdom Independence Party.”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Wheeler

beautiful research, Isit
fight the power, Nigel

Some Earls, public schoolboys and former Conservative donors have seen the light, realised that they are not modernisers and have decided to join the people and leave the metropolitan elite. There is no harm in that and in fact the people welcome anyone who wishes to join and the people' party with open arms, as long as they agree to abide by the principles of the people's party - common sense, no spin, no luvvies.

Claig ….. may we apply your terminology of other political parties, to UKIP for some balance?

UKIP clearly replace ‘luvvies’ with ‘dummies’, as either the powers within UKIP without the benefits of ‘PPEs’ or an ‘Eaton’ education cannot formulate at any General Election a joined-up-thinking government plans plan - so UKIP have to “modernize” their whole UK domestic policies platform, at EVERY General Election.

It is one thing for a UKIP Party leader of your cult to DISOWN every policy as leader he signed off on;

“UKIP leader Nigel Farage has disowned the party's entire (2010) general election manifesto - which he helped launch - branding it "drivel”.
news.sky.com/story/1200525/nigel-farage-disowns-ukip-manifesto-as-drivel

It is another thing to try and wipe that UKIP policy “modernizing”, and previous inflammatory immigration speeches, right off the face of this Earth.

“UKIP spokesman Michael Heaver confirmed that the party’s 2010 election manifesto had been removed. While the party now opposes the planned high-speed north-south rail line, the 2010 document advocated building three new routes. “We’re in the process of updating everything,” Heaver said by telephone. “We’re going through a policy review.”

www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-15/u-k-parties-prepare-for-2015-by-erasing-web-histories.html
“Both these are outdone by the U.K. Independence Party, which has no record of any speeches made before March this year. The earliest news item is leader Nigel Farage’s New Year 2013 message.

Less spin, more deletions.

Sir John Nott explains why he voted UKIP

"Sir John Nott: I Voted Ukip To Put A Bomb Under David Cameron And The Liberal Conservative Leadership"

In a follow-up interview, the former Tory MP explains why he backed Nigel Farage and what is wrong with David Cameron's "liberal" Eton dominated Conservative Party.

"I thought the more we can put a bomb under the Conservative government the better," Sir John Nott says, explaining his decision to vote for Ukip earlier this year. It worked. The explosion voters set off by handing Ukip 25 MEPs sent David Cameron scrambling to the eurosceptic right and arguably made Britain's exit from the EU more likely.

Sir John concludes: "I think Reckless will win."

So where did the prime minister go wrong? The "liberal bias of the present leadership" is largely to blame, he says. "The rise of Ukip among the Tories has to some extent been a reaction against liberal-conservatism. If the Ukip generation doesn't come back to the Tories, then the Tories are going to lose a lot of marginal seats."

Sir John may have been first elected to the Commons in 1966 on a National Liberal ticket. But he has little time for Cameron's modernising project. "It isn’t just that we are in coalition. It is that the current leadership is, I don’t like to call them left-wing, let's use Cameron's own expression that he is a 'liberal-Tory'."
...
"I don't think Cameron can negotiate a sensible exit, I think it will prove impossible," Sir John says, rubbishing the prime minister's plan to secure for Britain a looser relationship with Brussels, then put it to a in/out referendum in 2017. "I want a free trade Europe, a Europe based on maximum cooperation and friendship with other countries, which is what I voted for in 1972. I want to get rid of all these political shackles. I think we should be governed by parliament and not by a committee of 28 people and civil servants in Brussels."
...
By contrast he says, citing conversations with friends who still live and work in Westminster, "the people in the parliamentary bubble can't understand why the ordinary citizen is attracted to Ukip".
...
Harold MacMillan and the "left wing" 1950s and 1960s Tory establishment is what made Sir John enter politics. "The country was declining," he says. And he is worried that the establishment has once again taken over. "I understand that MacMillan is one of Cameron's great heros," he sighs. "I believe he has a photograph of MacMillan on his desk. MacMillan was my anti-hero. I went into politics to get shot of all that MacMillan stuff."

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10/31/sir-john-nott-ukip-conservative-party-immigration_n_6082336.html

Claig ….. so in answer to my post PROVING that you KNOW when cult UKIP are lying, they open their mouths (and delete their UK domestic policies/inflammatory speeches, later) - you need to post paragraphs of what some old Thatcherite fart thinks, from an era where the pro/anti EU split in within the Conservative both nearly split it AND helped Blair get a 177 seat majority in 1997?

How on Dave’s green earth can you k-e-e-p on about Conservative “modernising”, when 90 odd% of Thatcherism is alive and well (despite having to compromise on various policies as in coalition with a far left party), both repairing the economy and underpinning it on a far more sustainable platform with joined-up-policies on welfare, education, business/job growth, smaller government, paying down a budget deficit, citizens to keep more of their own money, a better State pension formula to protect pensioners etc etc etc.

So with all that important ‘stuff’ to benefit our daily lives, who gives a flying fruit if a Conservative dinosaur calls Cameron, ‘liberal’?

So if those Thatcherite policies that worked to well from 1979 – 1997, and from 2010 to-date, who cares that a Conservative dinosaur can’t appear to see the difference between solid, tangible Conservative ideology/policies/records (consistent in and out of power) – and the UKIP fairy dust promises, that Mary Poppins like, float away when the political ‘wind changes’?

Dinosaur Nott “don’t think we can negotiate a sensible exit”, what does THAT MEAN - as in a UK Referendum with an IN/OUT option, we are not asking the EU ‘please may we leave?’ – the UK will democratically ask 64 million citizens do we stay in, or leave and the VERDICT is BINDING on the Westminster bubble, from Commons to Lords.

UKIP/Farage should be getting behind that Conservative referendum, as if not, 'the people' should question the integrity of a sole issue party that campaigned to be out of the EU for 20-years, but now they sense Westminster power, choses to campaign against the one (Conservative) party that can deliver it.

'So with all that important ‘stuff’ to benefit our daily lives, who gives a flying fruit if a Conservative dinosaur calls Cameron, ‘liberal’?'

Because half the Tory party membership tore up their membership cards in disgust most probably because of that. They probably agreed with Sir John Nott.

We want out of the EU but we also want an end to the politically correct metropolitan elite's modernisation agenda. We didn't vote Conservative to get Blair and we have now had enough.

We want UKIP policies - out of the EU, common sense, law and order, no more political correctness, no more windfarms, scrapping of the Climate Change Act, control of our borders, no more waste of taxpayer money on politically correct schemes, a change in our postal voting system, slashing of our foreign aid budget and our quangos, direct democracy, local referenda and proportional representation.

"Ukip is only party that recognises rural threat, head of National Trust warns

Sir Simon Jenkins says grassroots Tories understand the problem but the national party 'does not get the point’

Voters in rural England are turning to the UK Independence Party because it is the only party that has woken up to the threat to the countryside from developers, the outgoing head of the National Trust has said."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11209458/Ukip-is-only-party-that-recognises-rural-threat-head-of-National-Trust-warns.html

Claig .... what UKIP says, is whatever it thinks will get it Conservative (or any other) votes. UKIP wanted 3 train lines to go through rural area in 2010, afterwards it saw more votes in not have ONE HS2 line.

If UKIP thought it had a chance in Scotland, it would campaign to have the NHS use tartan coloured sticky plasters.

Many Conservatives may have tore up their Conservative memberships and took up anti gay etc UKIP memberships, but who are they, you, me, or UKIP, to say gay people should not have various rights, even if we have our own personal doubts?

But for the numptyfifth time, relatively minor/minority issues and the number of memberships do not decide seats in parliament - so while UKIP have the extra memberships, the map of England below, looks far more blue than purple. Moreover, I think it is correct that Conservative memberships are up, and include bright, young, sexually open minded, non racist, voters.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/

Re British National Front agendas versus the "politically correct metropolitan elites modernisation agenda", I look at your list of UKIP soundbite policies and pee myself laughing, as if that IS ALL UKIP STAND FOR - no wonder they have trouble putting that shit down in writing, within a manifesto, for longer that it takes for the ink to dry. lol

Any Conservative worthy of the title, including MP's, should be glad to stand behind the following reforms/policies mentioned above for the good of ALL, and IMPLEMENTED by a proven party in government over 35 years - but if they want 'magic dust' solutions by the party on magic mushrooms, so be it - and they GET a clueless Labour, reversing what has been acheived in over 4-years.
welfare, education, business/job growth, smaller government, paying down a budget deficit, citizens to keep more of their own money, a better State pension formula to protect pensioners etc etc etc.

You don't understand what is happening. Rochester will be a victory for UKIP in their 271st safest seat. People have had enough and old Labour voters are voting UKIP too. This is teh beginning of change, the beginning of the end of political correctness and the beginning of listening to the people. The metropolitan elite is shaking because they know it is over.

UKIP won't win this election, but they will probably win the next one. Then there will be no more waste of public taxpayer money and direct democracy and proportional representation. People will be listened to and the metropolitan elite and all their mates will no longer make decisions that affect everyone and where there money is spent.

There will be no more waste of taxpayer money by luvvies with their hands on the lever. Some of the luvvies in some of the "charidees" will be wondering if they will still receive taxpayer subsidies. Metropolitan mates in quangos will be worrying if their expenses and jobs will still be safe. There will be no more gravy trains with the people's money. The metropolitan mardi gras with the people's money will be over. They won't be able to toss the people's money around as if it were pancakes. All their waste will be over.
Their expenses will be curtailed. They know it's over.

"Fury over the £3bn Britain spends on foreign aid to groups who waste it (and it's been handed out despite MPs being told of the misuse)"
:www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2605597/Fury-3bn-Britain-spends-foreign-aid-groups-waste-handed-despite-MPs-told-misuse.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2605597/Fury-3bn-Britain-spends-foreign-aid-groups-waste-handed-despite-MPs-told-misuse.html

There will be no more partying for the metroplitan luvvies and all their mates, but the people will be partying once common sense is restored.

"So much for the bonfire of the quangos: Thousands of bureaucrats recruited since the election despite Cameron's pledge"

Thousands more bureaucrats have been recruited by the Coalition in spite of David Cameron's pledge to hold a 'bonfire of the quangos'.

At least 4,500 civil servants have been taken on since the election in May last year by Government departments and quangos – three times the number that have been handed compulsory redundancy notices.

The Equality and Human Rights Commission, the Independent Commission for Aid Impact and the Committee on Climate Change are among the quangos which have been busy recruiting.

Extra staff have been taken on while many parts of the public sector are making swingeing cuts to front-line services."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2021729/So-David-Camerons-bonfire-Quangos-election-pledge.html

We are a rich country and just wait and see how much money UKIP will save by ending the funding of luvvies' causes and watch the council election results when those savings are spent on the people in health, education, fixing potholes and restoring street lighting.

Claig .... what YOU are failing to grasp, but clearly UKIP's financial and smokey back room backer Wheeler has, is that when it comes to Westminster seats, not enough voters TRUST home grown UKIP (magic mushroom) candidates - but are happy to vote for sitting Conservative MP's they trust, in at least a Westminster by-election - with a free option of changing their minds next May, in the General Election.

If UKIP's UKIP candidates were winning parliamentary seats after losing several by-election, and/or had innovative UK domestic policies rather than regurgitated (toned down) anti EU/immigration BNP ones, you might be forgiven for doing victory laps - but UKIP has neither.

UKIP will be around for years to come, no doubt lying to UK voters in European elections that they NOW need 300 MEP seats to leave the EU - but similar to the Front National Party in France, while UKIP are winning the 'fear' votes of voters worried about an opened door EU during hard economic times - the stronger the UK economy gets and voters understand an EU Referendum is in the UKs best interest, on election day, people will vote with their heads.

Claig ..... yup, yup, yup .... re Quangos, a word to the unwise, if you are scratching around for something to say, as we are in November 2014 - using August 2011 Daily mail links for current statistics, just makes you look very desperate.

“Constantly talking isn't necessarily communicating.”
? Charlie Kaufman

"Luvvies look after themselves and look after their own, and when they sense a whiff of dissent in the ranks, first they close up, then they start flailing wildly"
--- Nigel Farage

Farage has got 'em on the ropes.
Vote UKIP, get UKIP!

The New Statesman discusses Miliband's problems in adapting to the new politics - people's politics. It's not just Miliband who has the problem, it's the entire metropolitan elite. They are all out of touch with the people.

"Miliband has a deterministic, quasi-Marxist analysis of our present ills. The Ukip insurgency, Scottish nationalism, the hollowing out of political parties, Islamist radicalisation, the loathing and distrust of elites: all are manifestations of a failed economic model."
...
Miliband is very much an old-style Hampstead socialist. He doesn’t really understand the lower middle class or material aspiration. He doesn’t understand Essex Man or Woman. Politics for him must seem at times like an extended PPE seminar: elevated talk about political economy and the good society.

At present, he and Labour seem trapped. His MPs sense it and the polls reflect it. Ukip is attracting support in the party’s old working-class northern English heartlands and winning converts in key Home Counties swing seats that Labour would once have hoped to win. In Scotland the SNP has become the natural party of government."

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/11/ed-miliband-s-problem-not-policy-tone-and-increasingly-he-seems-trapped

It is starting to look like the people have broken the glass ceiling and are demanding to be heard and the metropolitan elite don't get it.