Tory MP Mark Reckless defects to UKIP

[claig]

Panic in elite circles

Rochester on Newsnight now

Another load of Newsnight bollocks saying that EU immigrants get £36 a week and non EU immigrants don't qualify fir anything.

Absolute nonsense.

£36 fie a single person Plus housing plus council tax benefit plus free NHs...... Not much, but certainly a lot more than Newsnight. Is spinning

Ahhh. So now we get to the real message...

As they interview a Tory MP who favours immigration

I despair

'I despair'

Don't despair. We all know their game. The BBC is part of the luvvies, the metropolitan elite, the spinners. It's the same small circle. They've probably got PPEs too. The people are no longer fooled by this stuff. The silent majority say nothing because they aren't invited to, but when a by-election comes such as Clacton, they tell the spinners where to go.

We are in uncharted political territory - even the luvvies, Labour bigwigs and spinners say so. The silent majority will win. It may take us 5 or 10 years, but we will win.

"How the Establishment Is Trying to Destroy UKIP - and Why It Will Fail"

By "the Establishment" I don't, of course, mean the toffee-nosed, elitist right-wing conspiracy which exists largely in the perfervid imaginations of Russell Brand and Owen Jones.

I mean the new progressive Establishment which has dominated the cultural and political argument since at least the Blair era: the quangos, the seats of academe, the politically correct corporatists, the Eurocrats, the congenitally bien-pensant luvvies, the liberal media from the Guardian to the BBC, the charities, the identikit politicos in the Westminster bubble. They want to destroy UKIP not out of high principle but simply because it represents such a threat to the communitarian status quo.

www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/10/29/How-the-Establishment-is-trying-to-destroy-UKIP-and-why-it-will-fail

WetAugust .. Re the Conservatives and Cameron, please cut through the UKIP crap, as what you are saying is, forget the big picture UK recovery no other party was going to deliver based on their 2010 manifestos and lets knit pick on a few populist issues, where UKIP/you can pretend they make a difference.

So lets look at the ones you mention, one by one.

Zero Contract Hours; been around how long, 20-odd years (or more?), some companies would not employ at all if had to take on full time employees in tough business conditions, around 1% of the population are on them, many WANT to be on them, and I believe changes to pay ‘exclusive’ employees a retainer is being looked into – what are UKIP’s problem and additional solutions???

UK Taxpayers Money Being Paid to the EU: clearly UKIP want to come out of the EU, via an EU Referendum, so if you won’t support the Conservatives we stay in the EU, and you say UKIP won’t pay contributions when enshrined in British law – tell me exactly what a UKIP with 24 MEPs, 2 to 20 Westminster MPs can do to stop UK contributions to an organisation we are a Member of???

EU Free movement of citizens; you keep telling me Cameron can not restrict the free movement of citizens based on EU (therefore British Law), so if we have to stay in the EU thanks to UKIP – please tell who else within the EU HAS a points system and why would this be legal???

EU TTIPs; you started a thread on this and could not explain what is the difference between any corporation wanting contractual assurances against investing vast sums of money, and incompetent governments then changing their minds on specifications half way through, cancellations and heaven knows what else i.e. NHS IT System, Two Aircraft Carriers – so tell me what is the difference in those private sector Contracts pre TTIP and after????

EU Arrest Warrant; as Cameron mentioned there have been recent changes/amendment to it – what specifically is UKIP now objecting to?

Re transfers back and forth of small items of law, again that is part of the EU gig, lets have a UK Referendum AS THERE IS NO OTHER DEMOCRATIC WAY OUT..

Re Farage, ‘what you see is what you get’, which is what, someone who has no big picture economic plan, but makes a good political living, making a big noise on cherry picked populist issues – with very few he could do anything about, with 24 MEPs many people thought he COULD change things with, but he misled them.

Camerons been running a country successfully for 4 1/2 years, having to fix/go back to basics on many ministerial issues, with a £158 billion overspend, thanks to Labour’s record I list on the other page.

Farage has achieved WHAT in 20-years, apart from lining his own pocket with taxpayer funds, building a powerbase for a FTSE company owner and himself – happy to let pro EU/immigration Labour back into (2015) power in the process. Excuse me, I can’t see any attraction for that kind of 'change'.

Claig ... for several months at least (since I've been posting on Mumsnet) now you have both accused Cameron of not sticking to Conservative principals, fixated on the word "modernizing" - as if it is something bad that UKIP who flip, flops, and drops General Election manifestos to win targeted votes, somehow has the moral policy high ground.

So I will repeat a post on the previous page below, please respond in detail as you keep using the term within your puerile labeling, that makes you sound a bit swivelly eyed.

Claig ….. Look at te date of the Cameron Telegraph ‘modernise’ article, February 2010, 3-months before (thanks to UKIP votes) getting stuck in a coalition with the tree hugging Lib Dems.

Look at this 2005 Conservtive manifesto, the 6-key policies INCLUDING controlling immigration, that got them nowhere in 2005 – who running a aprty that lost 3 general elections before became leader, would not like to modernise SOMETHING to get elected that clearly wasn’t resenating with voters?????
news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/11_04_05_conservative_manifesto.pdf

What are the major economic and ideological earth moving policy changes you see happened from 1997, to 2005 to 2010 onwards – bearing in mind some will be due to the Lib Dems???

Claig .... do not mistake 'the establishment' questioning UKIP as just attacking them, just because it may make UKIP look politically stupid, as if a political party sets itself up as 'different' or a 'change' - in a country wide democracy, UKIP will have to specify their policies on EVERY issue and cost them, if not now, for a leader debate closer to the GE.

Farage just grandstand attacking other party leaders records/policies, without spelling out what UKIP OFFERS, ain't going to happen, as if thats the UKIP plan, they don't deserve to participate.

Thanks for the pep talk Claig. I was feeling happier..... And then I read Isitmebuts latest rant.

Not offering a cast iron guaranteed referendum from Darling Dave any more then Isitmebut? is that because he cannot deliver again?

Someone compared him to a man trying to play chess when all he know how to play is draughts .. And he plays draughts very badly.

His swaggering over-confidence just makes him look like an ass. An ignorant ass.

we don't need EAW. We have Interpol. We have so-called helpful chums sprinkled on countries all over E utile so why on earth would they not extradite a criminal when we asked them?

I wonder if it would have been used to extradite the British group who were charged with espionage in Greece - because they were plane spotting and the Greeks could not get their heads around why anyone would want to watch planes. - unless you're a spy!

Someone will be extradited soon under this EAW for something that isn't even a crime in the UK and then all he'll with break lose in the Guardianista ranks.

I expect they'll say that. These new safeguards would have prevented the arrest and imprisonment of Aysha Kings parents that was undertaken via an EAW. Are we sure? well never know

the reality is that under the EAW police forces throughout this country will have to spend valuable time arresting NAND extraditing P oldish labourers for stealing a wheel barrow so the Police have no available time to investigate the national child abuse that it is claimed has been normalised across some of our Northern regions

Bloody nonsense. And where's my vote that Dodgy Dave promised me every time he planned to transfer more of my rights to the DU

OOoops Shoulda realised . it was a Another Dodgy Dave promise.

And you need to realise I site but that Nigel is not a Westminster MP. He isn't Leader of the Country (joint with Clagg). Dave has the power in Westminster but Dave fails to use it except to pander to the EU. before you tell,me, well he's got to keep Claggy happy, I'm not buying that excuse. If you can't exercise your power get out of office and let someone in who's not afraid to exercise power for the benefit of the UK.

And before you tell me that D ave can't do that because he's bound into a 5 year term -bollocks. he created that law and he can undo it. Go and tell Liz that he no longer has Lib support - which he doesn't and decide whether to go if alone for the next 5 months or ask for dissolution now. And if he's hot any sense or any sense of self preservation he should go now before much more of his own support haemorrhages away.

Oooh. We get our individual Isitmebut but posts now Claig. Vitriol for me and a lesson on modernising for you

Isitmebut

Do you honestly think that people, sit down and examine the minutiae that you are determined to keep focusing on.

they don't

They base it on how well a person eats a bacon sandwich etc Whether a person has stuffed their brothers career chances....

Shallow sound big world has intruded on your academic PPE approach.

Isitmebut, Cameron is a moderniser at heart and to teh core. That is why lots of his MPs don't like him and half teh Tory party membership left under his leadership and why Tory members are leaving in droves.

Of course he is having to pretend he wil cut teh green crap becaue he is under pressure, but his heart and that of his chums is not in it. The game is up, time has run out.

"The march of time has outpaced the Tory modernisers
...
Modern public opinion is not supportive of green taxes, for example – voters have more in common with those who want to cut “green crap” than the backbenchers who have lobbied David Cameron to maintain the green agenda.

Rather than representing the politics of here and now, modernising has become shorthand for other things – proactive support for green politics, but also, more negatively, a dislike and disdain for the Right of the party. Implicitly it brands everything that comes from the Right as outdated – despite the rightwards shift of the electorate (and particularly young voters) on issues like welfare or deficit reduction."

www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2013/11/the-march-of-time-has-outpaced-the-tory-modernisers.html

You don't seem to have a clue about why Tory voters are abandoning the modernisers and why the people of Clacton delivered the biggest landslide in political history to a party that the modernisers said were full of "fruitcakes, looneys and closet racists".

WetAugust .... if both you and Claig want to post time and again lies about other parties and politicians, EXPECT to be asked to clarify them.

That big post above your last, again nothing but inane knit picking and small picture examples crap designed to attack Cameron, even repeating bare faces lies on Cameron's promises - which I gave you the facts a few pages ago and asked you to challenge if disagree with, but as usual you pathetically go M.I.A.

I repeat WHAT giving a Referendum promises has Cameron broken, re Scotland or the EU?

Here is the "cast iron guarantee" UKIP disingenuously uses for political purposes, while ensuring the UK does not have a UK Referendum Farage used to say he wanted.

What bit does Farage and you NOT understand of the “no treaty will be ratified” promise, when a basic timeline glance shows was taken out of his hands once Labour/Brown signed the Lisbon Treaty, and all thing EU were then enshrined into British Law BEFORE 2010.

Today, I will give this cast-iron guarantee: If I become PM a Conservative government will hold a referendum on any EU treaty that emerges from these negotiations. No treaty should be ratified without consulting the British people in a referendum.

I look forward to either your list of Cameron broken Referendum promises, or an apology for being a lieing UKIP WetWipe.

Claig ... so the only example of Cameron "modernizing" you can give are Green related, when some policies will be EU and other Lib Dem related - so in other words, if Green policies are what, a few percent of the TOTAL LIST of Conservative policies - you are talking complete and utter bollocks saying Cameron has changed Conservative core values.

So UKIP just want nuclear and fossil fueled power plants and all wind farms off shore, big deal, in the BIG PICTURE the Conservatives under Cameron has an overall record of policy success versus Labour's last administration, while UKIP/Farage have achieved nothing with 24 MEPs, other than mass deception on what they could acheive.

Isitmebut, yiou need tostart reading what some real Tories say not justkeep spouting whatthe modernisers say.

Here is David Davis, a real Tory explaining how modernisation pervades everything that is wrong with the Tory Party and has led to the collapse in their support because good decent people grew sick of being treated as mugs by a posh out-of-touch elite that pandered to a progressive vote and despised true conservative core values - not money, not 1% here and 1% there, but values. Hugging a hoodie went down like a lead balloon with true conservatives and to see senior Tories grovelling to the hoodie vote on photoshoots while a hoodie stuck two fingers up over Cameron's head behind his back showed how pathetic the Etonian courting of the hoodie vote was while ignoring pensioners and lifelong Tory voters. Davis explains how pandering to teh metropolitan elite's modrnisation crusade led to teh rise of UKIO as true Tories abandoned the spinners and left them to take photos with the hoodies and huskies.

"Essentially, the modernisers absorbed the view of London’s metropolitan elite, which confuses social conservatism with bigotry, patriotism with xenophobia, or even racism, and equates an admiration for wealth creation with disdain for the poor and even carelessness about the future of the planet. Nonsensical views, but remarkably common in the upper reaches of parts of London society."
..
And yet this lazy, liberal, metropolitan analysis underpinned the moderniser approach. As the basis for abandoning the central tenets of the most successful political party in modern history, the analysis was rubbish.

We must reach out to the wider Conservative family

By shifting the Conservative brand away from its historic base, the party abandoned traditional Conservative principles and made ourselves less appealing to those who supported us.

Headline policies have downplayed the economy and reform of public services, and concentrated on fringe issues like environmentalism, gay marriage and foreign aid. Very few of these are in voters’ top five concerns.

The party leadership is seen as considerably more Left-wing than its support. Middle England regards modernisation as the obsession of a metropolitan elite.

The most significant consequence to the Conservatives’ confused and inconsistent public stance is that Ukip are polling at slightly over 15 per cent."

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2772283/The-threat-UKIP-no-longer-laughing-matter-Get-Dave-lower-taxes-win-Election-writes-DAVID-DAVIS.html

It's too late now. They have blown it. The more the public see Farage, the more they like him. And the more they see the modernisers, the more they remember why they dislike them.

Mark Reckless stands in front of a new UKIP poster. This is what it says

"Lib Dems, New Labour, 'Modern' Tories ... just more of the same'

Brilliant. UKIP get it, they understand the people. The spinnmodernisers are going to be wiped out in Rochester and everywhere else.

"Tories have accused David Cameron of admitting defeat to Ukip in next month’s crunch by-election where the party is on course to win a second Commons seat.

The warning came after Mr Cameron announced that a bitterly divisive vote on whether to keep the European Arrest Warrant would be held before the contest in Rochester, Kent not afterwards.

It is predicted that up to 100 Tory backbenchers will rebel against the Government, which would be the biggest rebellion yet and a major blow to Mr Cameron’s authority

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2813402/Cameron-admitted-defeat-Ukip-crunch-election-says-Tories-PM-announced-vote-European-Arrest-Warrant-held-polling-day.html

From a Guardian journalist on the ground with the people in Rochester. Metropolitan elite in London reading this and panicking.

10 things I've learnt from talking to the voters in Rochester

"For those of us who write about politics for a living, talking to the people who actually do the voting is always a salutary experience. I spent more than an hour on Rochester high street and I had long conversations with about 20 people, and fleeting conversations with a few more. This is what I learnt.

1- Ukip seem well ahead. People planning to vote Ukip, or leaning towards Ukip, outnumbered Conservative supporters by at least two to one. I only spoke to one Labour supporter, and others were either undecided, or would not say."
...
Are the polls right? Is the Ukip lead solid? And will Ukip supporters stick with the party in the general election?

Yes, they probably are. The Ukip lead does look solid. And, if my conversations with Ukip supporters are any guide, these people are not going to flock back to David Cameron easily."

www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2014/oct/24/rochester-and-strood-byelection-politics-live-blog

Isitmebut, get down to Rochester. Try to win the people over for the modernisers. The metropolitan elite need every last person they can get down there. It's absolutely desperate on the streets with the people. There is talk of carnage, massacre amd mayhem and that's just looking on the positive side.

'People planning to vote Ukip, or leaning towards Ukip, outnumbered Conservative supporters by at least two to one.'

And this is in UKIP's 271st most winnable seat. And the modernisers assured the public that Rochester would be nothing like Clacton, that the modernisers would stop UKIP's march in its tracks by throwing the kitchen sink at the people.

I have long been saying that the modernisers employ politically correct teenage think tank twonks from Oxbridge (with PPEs if possible) to try to reach the people on the street. Now even some Tory MPs agree

"No.10's 'teenage spin doctors' under attack from forcing Tory ministers to retract 'truthful' comments on immigration"

But they show what a nasty party they really are by defending the use of "swamped" which decent UKIP candidates such as Reckless and Carswell would not use.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2813408/Politically-correct-teenage-spin-doctors-attack-Tory-backbenchers.html

Hi. Claig

Just filled in a poll for ConservativeHome. asked me about the performance of individual ministers, popularity, what sort of party I souls support sync then.....

...who should be the leader if the Tory party zinc Shen should the coalition collapse?

Hmmm

Claig .... good, you want to play the 'UKIP is not and never been racist' card, clearly in the knowledge that Farage has tried to wipe clean from the internet all his racial/immigration inflammatory speeches - like some dodgy dictator trying to reinvent himself as an 'inclusive' statesman, How slippery and politically calculating is that.

www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-15/u-k-parties-prepare-for-2015-by-erasing-web-histories.html
“Both these are outdone by the U.K. Independence Party, which has no record of any speeches made before March this year. The earliest news item is leader Nigel Farage’s New Year 2013 message.

But those that WERE inside with a political and racial conscience, and open to the truth of exactly what UKIP is, have left and spoke out.

“'The party deliberately attracts the racist vote': Ukip poster girl tipped by Farage as 'rising star' quits over 'terrifying' lurch right.”

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2627408/The-party-deliberately-attracts-racist-vote-Ukip-poster-girl-tipped-Farage-rising-star-quits-terrifying-lurch-right.html
• Sanya-Jeet Thandi urges supporters not to vote for party anymore

• Hit out at ad campaign which claimed 26 million migrants after British jobs
• Claims Nigel Farage has let party descend into 'form of racist populism'

“A UKIP poster girl described by Nigel Farage as a ‘rising star’ has quit after describing it as a ‘racist’ and ‘terrifying’ party that she cannot vote for.”

“Sanya-Jeet Thandi, 21, a British-born Indian who had starred in a party election broadcast and spoken at its annual conference, accused Ukip of deliberately attracting racist voters.”

“The university student said the party had abandoned its core supporters and called on others to end their memberships and boycott the upcoming European elections.”

And a British born Indian girl was not the only one who saw enough of the 'red neck' culture before walking out.

“I can't campaign for Ukip any longer, says party's 'future face' Alexandra Swann over concerns with immigration stance”
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rising-ukip-star-alexandra-swann-protests-her-own-partys-stance-on-immigration-9244746.html

“A woman who was heralded as the “future face” of Ukip says she can no longer face campaigning for the party because of their illiberal stance on immigration.”

“Alexandra Swann was supposed to represent the party's new, younger membership when she publicly defected from the Conservatives at Ukip's spring conference in 2012. Nigel Farage introduced her to a jubilant party faithful, boasting: "I'm very pleased to say that the Swann has migrated to Ukip".

“However, it seems the Swann has migrated again. She told The Independent: "I can't bring myself to campaign for them."

“The party's increasingly incendiary rhetoric on immigration has pushed Ms Swann, 25, away. She says: "The focus moved to immigration. It was difficult with the anti-gay marriage stuff. Now so much of their argument is anti-immigration which didn't sit well with me.”

Claig .... you wouldn't be trying to "modernize" UKIP from racial bigots to girl guides are you????

“Ukip Founder (Professor) Alan Sked Says The Party Is 'Morally Dodgy' And 'Extraordinarily Right-Wing"

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/11/26/ukip-founder-alan-sked-morally-dodgy_n_2190987.html

"However, he may have won support from an unusual quarter - the founder and former leader of Ukip, Professor Alan Sked, says the party he launched in 1993 has become "extraordinarily right-wing" and is now devoted to "creating a fuss, via Islam and immigrants. They've got nothing to say on mainstream issues."

"Its extraordinary," Sked told the HuffPost UK, "that at the last general election, with the country facing the greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression, [Ukip's] flagship policy was to ban the burqa."

"They're not an intellectually serious party. Their views on immigrants and on [banning] the burqa are morally dodgy."

Isitmebut, don't you understand how the mtropolitan elite work. Tricks.
They are not past putting plants in to fool the people. But nothing will work. The teenage Oxbridge whizz kids think the people are stupid, but they are not.

When the Rochester result is read out, there will be panic. Tory MPS will blame teenage politically correct spinners, teenage whizz kids will blame Tory dinosaurs, and modernisers will do what they always do - blame the people. There is going to be meltdown and Farage's phone will be constantly engaged as everybody tries to leave the sinking ship.

Farage's grinning face will be on every TV screen, and the world's media will be demanding to speak to Britain's most influential politician, Farage. He will be invited on US chat shows so that the US public get accustomed to this new rising star, and of course, just like the people here, they will think Farage is great with his fag and his pint and his two fingers to the spinners.

Even EU leaders will meet to discuss how they will handle Farage because they will all know that the game is up.

'Just filled in a poll for ConservativeHome. asked me about the performance of individual ministers, popularity, what sort of party I souls support sync then.....

...who should be the leader if the Tory party zinc Shen should the coalition collapse?'

WetAugust, put Mickey Mouse - he couldn't do any worse and at least he is not a moderniser.

The British public think Farage is on our side - that goes without saying - but what is really going to shock the PPEs is that the public all across Europe and the US will also think that Farage is on their side. Tourism will rocket as tourists want to see Buckingham Palace and Farage in a pub. The country will boom. Talk about "Cool Britannia", you ain't seen nothing yet.

Claig .... well that WetDream is a thrill and larf a minute, what can I say other than UKIP have got so many jollies and leverage off the buying/poaching of two Conservative back benchers, who would have had no hope of making the front benches/ministerial positions - so who looks 'Walt Disney' now? lol

Farage as you say, could be in demand as the UK's first 'National Front' type UK political celebrity, who kept his jack-boots at home, rather than wearing them on the street during interviews, surrounded by people who 'weren't very clever, but could lift heavy things' - as UKIP call THEM MEPs and send them off to Brussels. lol