Tory MP Mark Reckless defects to UKIP

[claig]

Panic in elite circles

"THE PROBLEM with a (now) £100 billion annual overspend ... a SERIOUS political party cannot just offer tax cut sweeties"

But that is why UKIP is the only serious party - the party that will scrap HS2 and save up to £60 billion, scrap green taxes and the Climate Change Act which is leading to the danger of our first-world country having its lights and energy for industry and heat for the people in cold winters being possibly turned off, and will slash the modernisers' ring-fenced foreign aid budget by about £10 billion, as well as saving billions by slashing quangos and depriving quangocrats of their expenses and salaries.

I only wish the Tories were half as serious as that, but they ain't. Why? Modernisers.

'how does that help the working man'

They are going to raise the tax threshold to something like £12500 to £13500, stop the people's money being wasted on foreign aid and politically correct charidees and spin, and control immigration so that there are not too many people chasing too few jobs which will cut unemployment and lead to a rise in the take-home pay of hardworking people (not luvvies, modernisers and spinners).

try to keep it civil Isitmebut. Shoot the policies, not the messenger.

I only popped out to Asda and came back to screen culls of it again

stop blaming UKIP fog - well, anything. You keep telling us we gave no power so stop blaming us for the devils in the world.

tbh Claig . I don't know why you're wasting your time. There will always be those who are unable to reform and will go dis with the Tory ship as surely as the Captain of the Titanic did

And no, UKIP, us not an iceberg

'I don't know why you're wasting your time'

Because I want UKIP to do well, because I dislike the Tories and Labour because I believe they have let millions of people down and more of them will be just more of the same. I want change and a better future for the country so I argue against the spin that has been swallowed by a moderniser like Isitmebut.

Claig

Someone like Isitmebut has been a Tory for a considerable time, feels very strongly that the Tory party has the fight policies and, if we are being totally honest, has invested a lot in the Tory party. Like a bad marriage, it's still difficult to separate from something that you no longer feel committed to. Isitmebut appears to be very committed to the Tories and it would take a lot, much more than you spending hours on here, trying to convince them otherwise.

Much more fun to stop the verbal battles and celebrate UKIPs duchesses.

Claig .. you are talking 'chump change' for a £100 bill problem in 2015 -especially when according to your 2010 manifesto on the previous page, UKIP thought 3- new train lines were necessary.

I get you would cut £10 billion going to foreigners, especially brown/black ones, but aid is a U.N./humanitarian type policy and to cut it to nothing would be stupid, as you never know when you need ££ to fight the next Ebola crisis.

Also like not investing in power stations ahead of capacity shortages, HS2 will cost what over the next 20-years, £50 billion or so, how will that seriously cut a bill now - you want to increase BY £19 billion of tax cuts - and not allow the North future growth/development.

The Conservatives have cut many quangos and local authority costs and thereby FREEZING COUNCIL TAX that went up over 110% under Labour, the Civil Service is the smallest since 2nd World War, that is ongoing under the Conservatives.

In effect, the cuts you have mentioned, will barely cover UKIP tax sweeties just promised to all, like a drunk sailor in a brothel - when the interest charge on our accumulating £1 .4 tril National Debt is now is £60 billion a year, likely to rise a lot over the next few years.

Welcome to grown up government, where just asking people what they want, and knowing the answer COSTS money, just don't cut that whats possible mustard.

But, WetAugust, I know that Isitmebut is a hardcore moderniser and won't change, but I put my views across for lurkers who may have been influenced by the negative propaganda and spin of the metropolitan elite as they try to throw the kitchen sink at UKIP in their attempt to stop the people getting real change.

Their spin didn't work in the Euro elections where UKIP came first or in Clacton where UKIP achieved the biggest landslide in postwar history, and I am certain it won't work in Rochester, and I hope it will not work in the General Election.

It is part of my duty as a citizen, a member of the people, to counter the best moderniser and spinner that CCHQ have got, Isitmebut.

WetAugust ... I'm going by a Conservative 1979 - 1997 and 2010 to-date record - you are supporting a UKIP that has lied what it can deliver voters for 20-years and have no credible domestic policies - I can see why you feel it is time to withdraw.

FYI I have invested nothing in the Conservative Party, I just remember the 1970's and fully understand the problems we had in 2010 that are on the way to being solved - when Labour and UKIP, as in 2010, still have NOTHING but empty class rhetoric and false promises, to offer my childrens and others, future.

Many though France's National Front would solve their economic problems, but they haven't - there are so many UK lessons to be learned from following France and the UK, so similar pre 2010 in policies, so different now.

'Many though France's National Front would solve their economic problems'

They are not in power and if they were they would solve France's economic problems by leaving the Euro. France is a fantastic country with some of the best scientists and technologists and companies in the world - with its TGV, Ariane Espace etc

If France left the Euro and left then left the EU it would boom. It is being dragged down by being in the EU just like most other countries are.

Claig ... how am I a 'modernizer', fool, there is very little difference in core Conservative policies NOW, that under Thatcher, saved the UK from already being known back then as 'the sick man of Europe' - which is currently a label for France.

Government as big/expensive as it needs to be, tax cuts when possible on a tax cutting 'direction of travel' for everyone, build more homes than Labour, ensure our kids in education gets a better one and can compete with foreign workers here or abroad, create a vibrant economy/jobs market etc, versus the opposite with Labour.

UKIP used to fight by-elections with home grown idiots supported by Farage pounding the streets, like the fairly recent one, anti EU, who's company had received £100k from the EU in aid, and got nowhere (not even 2nd) - now there is UKIP conviction politics for you.

Use up your two bought Conservatives for Westminster seats well, as the people trust and know what they are getting - and see how you do after that

France has an economy, similar to the UK pre 2010, relying on too much State spending on itself, currently about 57% of output - leaving the EU will not rebalance their economy.

Some people glaze over when they see one of Isitmebut's post - full of detours, deviations, downright lies, insults, irrelevancies, irritations, meanderings, meaningless points and modernising speak. But it is our duty to counter it all, to wade through it all, to fight the good fight, to do what is right, so that the people unite and win the political fight

As itainthalfhotmum said

"Keep fighting the good fight Claig and the rest. Were all counting on you!

Vote UKIP! Get UKIP!"

'Claig ... how am I a 'modernizer''

Because you are voting for the biggest moderniser in history - FlimFlameron.

He is not just a moderate moderniser, the Telegraoh article says that he is on a "modernising crusade".

"Moderniser David Cameron: I'm not for turning

David Cameron will declare that he will not retreat into the "Conservative comfort zone" and will carry on with his modernising crusade as he attempts to arrest his party's dip in fortunes."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/7332707/Moderniser-David-Cameron-Im-not-for-turning.html

"fool, there is very little difference in core Conservative policies NOW, that under Thatcher"

Isitmebut, I voted for Margaret Thatcher, the people knew Margaret Thatcher, Margaret Thatcher was a friend of ours. Isitmebut, Cameron's no Maggie Thatcher.

If you don't believe me, listen to someone who knew Thatcher very well and was no moderniser.

"Norman Tebbit wants David Cameron OUT - and next Tory leader to be 'more like Thatcher than Blair' "

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/norman-tebbit-wants-david-cameron-3265997

Blair, Cameron they are all teh same - teh same progressives, the same modernisers. Camneron is better than Blair, butthat is not saying much.

It's time for change. The people of Clacton lit the torch and congas are still going on down there right now, they won't stop celebrating on the Pier, in Jaywick, Frinton or Walton. Every hour is happy hour down there, drinks are half price. So many people are shaking Carswell's hand that he has had to resort to walking around with his hands in his pockets. It's party time - People's Party style. And Rochester is next.

We won't stop until we kick all the spinners out, it's going to be a rout.

"Blair, Cameron they are all the same"

They've even got the same PPE.

Claig ….. Look at te date of the Cameron Telegraph ‘modernise’ article, February 2010, 3-months before (thanks to UKIP votes) getting stuck in a coalition with the tree hugging Lib Dems.

Look at this 2005 Conservtive manifesto, the 6-key policies INCLUDING controlling immigration, that got them nowhere in 2005 – who running a a party that lost 3 general elections before became leader, would not like to modernise SOMETHING to get elected that clearly wasn’t resenating with voters?????
news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/11_04_05_conservative_manifesto.pdf

What are the major economic and ideological earth moving policy changes you see happened from 2005 to 2010onwards – bearing in mind some will be due to the Lib Dems???

Please list the Cameron major changes that makes a different to our lives and then we can compare them with what he has achieved.

P.S. Comparing Cameron versus Blair on their records, is just UKIP stupid - that will just get Labour back again.

*You want 'change', Blair gave 'change', change for change sake when replacing a government who's policies are working, was proven not to work - and Labour gave plans, not UKIP policies that change every month with the wind - just designed to give UKIP, not the people, power.

If UKIP policies changing all the time is not populist 'modernizing', god knows what is. Joker.

I just opened that manifesto.

What a load of spin! What a croc!

And to top it all off and seal it as top class modernising spin, the key points are written in big handwriting as if it is real and personal. They think the people are stupid.

And what they say in manifestos is not binding and it is what they have done and said every single day that they have been in power - all their stunts, and their politically correct spin that has made Tory membership halve since moderniser Cameron came in.

'that will just get Labour back again'

It doesn't matter - Blair, Cameron, Miliband it's all the same - all PPEs, all modernisers, all pro EU, all climate catastrophe campaigners, all spinners.

The days of the Tory modernisers treating good decent Tory heartland voters like Turkeys voting for Christmas are over. There's a new party in town, and it has taken their crown.

"You want 'change', Blair gave 'change',"

But I don't want negative change. I don't want Cameron's "modernising crusade". The change I want is "common sense" which is why I am voting for the "straight-talking common sense" party.

You brought up the 7os and said they wee times you did not want to repeat, hence you now support the Tories.

I would agree with you that the whole 70s of relentless strikes, oil shortages, union power, culminating in the Winter of Discontent was a hideous period in outer history and Something Had to be Done

that much was realised by even former Labour supporters, hence Basildon man boring for Mrs Thatcher

Like Claig and you, I too voted for Mrs Thatcher. My disillusionment with the Tories came primarily with the Maastriccht Treaty and I swore I would never vote Tory again after they did that. So i transferred my affections to the Referendum Party and then to UKIP, because an EU exit was my single most important policy.

The problem with the Tories is that, yes, Mrs T was right to curb the power of the unions, but since them the party has gone too far to the right and the average worker has no power left at all. So we have zero hours contracts which are immoral - UKIP would ban these
We have large amounts of UK tax payers money being handed to the EU to prop up unsuccessful countries - which UKIP would stop.

we have uncontrolled immigration from within the EU, while other countries potential émigrés cannot come here and we are denied their valuable skills - UKIP would introduce a points system and would end uncontrolled EU immigration.

UKIP would not sign up to the EUs TTIP.

UKIP would not sign up to a European Arrest Warrant that overturns entries of common law - but Dave will whip his Tories into signing away our democratic right

These are all policies which are important to me.

These are all areas in which Cameron has failed to take action and whipping your party to voter FOR EAW to take away our democratic rights is repugnant to me

Dave is no democratic

He is freely opting back into things he does not have to. He us transferring even more power to Europe while dissembling that he's not doing so

And you expect people to vote for him?

No chance

Farage is far from perfect but what you see us what you get.

And in the absence of anything meaningful on offer from Dave Ill take my vote elsewhere.

My goodness! Maureen Lipman has just published a mega rant at Ed Milliband and saying that she no longer supports Labour.

Very weird acticle.

Yes, I saw that

I used to like her. Politics does not mix with religion. It is another account that paints Ed as rather shallow though.

Ed is OK, he is not a bad guy. It's a shame that he had to be leader at a time when his adversary was the people's champion, the phenomenon that is Farage. Farage gave hell to Van Rompuy, imagine what he will do to teh minnows and spinners at PMQ and in Parliament.

No one the modernisers and luvvies wanted to change our PMQs. If Farage is ever Prime Minister, the whole country will tune in and cheer him as he makes mincemeat of the spinners. It won't be pretty, but the people will love it.