Tory MP Mark Reckless defects to UKIP

[claig]

Panic in elite circles

'It's an utter disgrace'

I don't think it is. I am against the EU, but the spinners are for it and we are part of a club. We all pay in to the club and we all get some money back. If a country is not doing well then it gets more money back e.g. France at the moment. We are growing economically and so we have to pay more in (just like if an individual earns more, then they have to pay more tax).

Greece, supposedly, must be having better economic figures than predicted so they will have to pay more in now, but they are still getting bail outs via other channels.

Farage knows that these are the rules of the club and the spinners know that too. This has just shown the public what the rules are and this has caused embarrassment just before a by-election.

Claig. You are being utterly ridiculous. You honestly expect the basket case country of Greece to be paying to prop up France and Germany

And where is Greece going to get the money to pay Germany from. - why from the Handouts given to it by the Central Bank funded by... Wait for it..... GERMANY!

What a joke

Sorry. That it indefensible.

WetAugust .... the next parliament "is only a poisoned chalice" for 'the people' if the Conservatives DON'T have a majority, in an electoral system where Labour just needs 31% to form the next government, BECAUSE UKIP IS IN THE WAY of the best party to maintain our growth AND via an EU Referendum, to give the people an IN/OUT choice.

*The Conservatives, unlike the clueless Labour and UKIP parties - judging by their manifestos in 2010 and every 'solution' we've heard since - is still the only option in turning around our economy and giving the UK a potential 'out' via a referendum of an EU.

*UKIP selfishly now looking for Westminster power over an EU Referendum, is the only thing in the way, as just 3% of the vote in the 2010 General Election ensured a minority Conservative government from 2010 - and the current double digit voter percentages GUARANTEES that Labour government to trash the economy and stay in the EU, to be a high unemployment/stagnant 'France'.

The IMF forced cuts is NO SOLUTION as services are slashed to meet their nominal spending cuts - with no cares for 'fairness', 'inequality' or anything else.

I saw Greek poverty first hand a few years ago when I was in Central Athens. Imagine drug addicts with suppurating wounds lying in the street on mattresses in 38c heat while others accost passers by for money. Like a scene out of hell and probably much worse now.

coming to a city near you when our welfare state has been bled dry by the EU parasites

'And where is Greece going to get the money to pay Germany from. - why from the Handouts given to it by the Central Bank funded by... Wait for it..... GERMANY!'

Yes, it just means that their handout is reduced and that they have to pay some of it back.

Claig ... Re your ‘The Peoples Army’ post on the last page, what complete and utter swivel eyed UKIP rollocks, totally divorced from reality.

A 'peoples party' can never have lied for 20-years to those same people what THEY could do (with even up to 24 highly paid MEPs) in leaving the EU and controlling immigration.

A 'peoples party' have to have General Election domestic policies they stand by for longer than a few years, and have the quality within to ever implement them, without the need to poach ‘the elite’ sitting MPs they wish to replace.

A ‘peoples party’ therefore will use ‘The Peoples Party’ slogan to deceive further, when the messages they send to ‘change’ the lives that vote for them, are no more effective than the votes for a British BNP or French Front National.

A ‘peoples army’ using UKIP’s Westminster MPs to concentrate on MP Recall that could replace sitting MPs doing the right thing for ‘the people’ (using social media like Facebook), with UKIP Westminster MPs (who couldn’t do it in General Elections) - more interested in Westminster power, than offering real ‘change’ policies and supporting Cameron’s 2017 EU Referendum.

A ‘peoples army’ that both concentrates on, and judges it’s success on, is via Party Members, Facebook, Twitter and god know what else, will have to ANSWER TO ‘THOSE PEOPLE’ who voted for them and let back Labour - when the Conservative led increased Pensions, Tax cuts, Business Investment, Employment Growth etc is not just STOPPED, they will be REVERSED - under a ‘tax high, spend badly’ Labour government needing just 31% of the vote in 2015 to do so.

So a ‘peoples army’ voting for UKIP for the benefit of UKIP, offering nothing but pain for ALL THE PEOPLE later, not just the ones that voted for UKIP, will go down in UK history as both the biggest political scam and ‘own goal’ disaster on the British people - by UKIP and those people that voted for them - and we’ll all be paying for it for many years to come.

Then why did the good people of Clacton vote for UKIP and vote the spinners out?

Why will the good people of Rochester most probably vote for UKIP and vote the spinners out?

Claig ... please pay attention, I have told you several times at least.

• In by-elections, governments usually lose them, especially one having to make cuts the last didn't have the guts to do, the Lib Dems that had a good record winning them, NOW they are a part of the current government.

• In Clacton and Rochester, UKIP voters, many protesting (6 out of 10) are trusting UKIP candidates as they are sitting CONSERVATIVE MPs, not the fruit loops and hypocrites like Mr Bickley, Farage recently wheeled out.

This term 'spinners' you KEEP using seriously makes you sound dumb as a UKIP promoter, based on at the very least, their 20-year EU/immigration lie, you cannot deny.

This is not a game, this is our children's future, UKIP stands in the way of our best chance to limit the damage already done.

IF UKIP offered policy alternatives, instead of warmed up Conservatives, you could/should believe people are voting for UKIP for all the right reasons - but UKIP have nothing but a voice against the EU/immigration, and many feel more comfortable voting UKIP than the BNP.

Of course it is not a game. In fact the game is up. The people have had enough of the modernisers and the spinners. They want some common sense policies, some leadership that is in touch. That is why UKIP are cleaning up. The game is over.

Claig … you have to hide the fact that one party got us into this mess and one got us out, with a generic ‘modernisers and spinners’, which is verging on childish denial of the truth.

What YOU are saying is that in a UK where either the Conservatives or Labour forms the next administration (with or without a coalition), voting for UKIP who lied for 20-years, no domestic policies they stand by, has dubious candidates that can’t win General Elections, no experience in governing (included any Tory backbenchers) – IS WORTH voting for that party, spoiling the economic recovery and STAYING in the EU for another 5-10 years – by allowing Labour back.

"The Conservatives made a big deal of holding an open primary so that the voters of Rochester and Strood could pick the Tory candidate themselves.

In the event, however, only seven per cent of the electorate - 5,688 people out of a possible 75,000 – bothered to take part, despite endless mailings from Tory HQ. And Tolhurst beat her rival, Anna Firth, by only one per cent, hardly making her the people’s favourite.

As Mike Smithson of Political Betting wrote after the result came through last night: “I said beforehand that a 15 per cent participation rate would be good given the time pressure. So to fall short of that by such a margin does not bode well for… Conservative prospects.”

If it’s any consolation, Tolhurst will not get the blame if/when she loses on 20 November. The name that will go into the history books will be that of her party leader.

David Cameron has taken a gigantic political risk by putting himself at the centre of this by-election in his desperation to stop the march of Ukip."

www.theweek.co.uk/politics/61003/can-a-labour-kick-boxer-save-camerons-skin-in-rochester

It's looking desperate

"Two new Ukip defectors mooted as by-election win looks easy

Ukip 13 points ahead in new Rochester poll, while Cameron is warned: it might be best to stay away

Two Conservative MPs are being touted as possible defectors to Ukip as a new poll is released giving Nigel Farage’s party a 13-point lead over the Tories in the Rochester and Strood by-election on 20 November.

One is John Baron, MP for Basildon and Billericay, considered a very safe Tory seat until now, who was named by the prominent Tory commentator Iain Dale on Sky News last night as a possible deserter.

Dale, taking part in a late-night newspaper review, was reluctant at first to name Baron but then agreed to do so, because of what he described as growing speculation in Tory circles.

The other is Conor Burns, MP for Bournemouth West, another safe Tory seat – though Ukip came a respectable fourth there in the 2010 general election, as opposed to fifth behind the BNP in Basildon and Billericay."

www.theweek.co.uk/politics/60984/two-new-ukip-defectors-mooted-as-by-election-win-looks-easy

Oh dear

John Baron is absolutely fantastic, an MP of real principle. When the modernisers wanted to bomb Syria, he went on Newsnight and explained why he was opposed to it. He is in Essex, much nearer to me than Clacton was.

I hope UKIP realise that Essex is prime UKIP territory. We were the Thatcherites, we were the real conservatives, not the modernisers. We will go UKIP.

'Basildon and Billericay, considered a very safe Tory seat until now'

Nothing is safe. This is a revolution.

There are two Basildon seats. I think John Baron is possibly in the more prosperous one. Not sure which one the following article is about, but it describes the "carnage" in the council elections when the people had their say and sent the modernisers on their way.

"Basildon councillor: We haven’t lost Essex Man

With the ‘carnage’ wrought by UKIP in the bellweather borough of Basildon showing disturbing parallels with 1997, surviving Conservative Cllr Andrew Schrader speaks to Paul Nizinskyj about what went wrong and how the party can win back ‘Essex Man’ in 2015.

At 32, Andrew Schrader has been a Billericay councillor on Basildon Council for little over a year, having taken the not unreasonable decision to step back from politics after university to focus on his career, rejoining the fold after the 2010 election and putting his name forward for selection in the by-election for the safe ward of Billericay last year with no real expectations of securing.

As it stands he is now one of only four Conservative councillors to have survived this week’s elections. In what was nothing short of a massacre – and described by Schrader himself as ‘carnage’ – UKIP hoovered up 11 of 15 seats up for grabs, decimating Labour and Conservative alike. With worrying parallels to the high-profile defeats of 1997’s general election, even leader of the council Tony Ball lost his seat, decapitating the Conservative group.

While it may well be the case that the promised UKIP ‘earthquake’ never really materialised nationally, it has undoubtedly razed South Essex to its foundations, completely redrawing the political map in this most aspirational, Thatcherite, area of the country. Previously untouchable Basildon Labour wards such as Fryerns fell to UKIP’s well-targeted populist rhetoric while, worryingly, Margaret Thatcher’s ‘Essex Man’ – typically Londoners who once voted Labour but moved to Essex and turned to the Conservatives – abandoned the ruling Conservatives in Basildon and Southend as well as the large opposition in Thurrock to a party run by Thatcher-worshipping duo Nigel Farage and his Thurrock-based head of policy, Tim Aker."

parliamentstreet.org/blog/sunday-interview/2014/basildon-cllr-we-havent-lost-essex-man/

They still don't get it, they still don't understand what they did wrong and how they let the people down. There are going to be more wipeouts to come.

Claig .... The UK is still going through the worse recession in 100-years, the 'problems' of inheriting/running/dealing with a (2010) £157 billion annual budget deficit economy would make ANY political party in government unpopular - even if the alternative parties were clueless what to do in their manifestos.

The Conservatives have not lost Essex man, if Essex man is not going to fall again for false promises of other political party leaders and votes for the party that delivered tax cut driven growth for them for years..

Labour/Blair promised 'Things are going to get better', HOW DID THAT WORK OUT?

UKIP/Farage promised voting for UKIP MEPs, they will do something to bring the UK out of the EU, so with 24 MEPs, HOW DID THAT WORK OUT?

The UK economy, finances, immigration, unemployment and housing situation in 1997 the Conservatives handed to Labour, was NOTHING LIKE what they inherited in 2010 - so why have the Conservatives let Essex man down LOWERING taxes, when Labour was going to raise them?

UKIP are STILL lying after 20-years on what they can deliver on the EU and immigration to Essex Man, and the only guarantees they can offer Essex man, is thanks to voting for UKIP, they will get Labour back who will kill the recovery and raise the taxes for all, they never told voters about before the 2010 General Election.

Essex Man will remember why they voted for Thatcher, who's Conservatives inherited a minimum tax rate of 32%, the higher rate over 60%, the tax on investment income over 90% and a Corporate Tax for businesses at 50%.

Voting UKIP promising magic solutions with no detail, rather than stick with the Conservatives who get the country out of messes rather tank it, is clearly a great mistake, as UKIP have NOTHING BUT PROPAGANDA, as your last posts show - _not ONE UKIP innovative solution to the problems everyone faces every day, only constant 'drip, drip, drip' BITCHING.

Don't worry folks. According to the Daily Telegraph Tony Blair says Cameron will win the GE.

What a lot of drivel is posted on this thread. Constant rants about what UKIP ( didn't) promise etc and fangs about political founders.

Oh dear. Therein lies the problem. Instead of ranting about stuff it would be helpful if the Tories had a plan to get us out of this mess.

Dave has asked for an urgent meeting with the EU to understand how he has been clobbered with this lead pipe in the library. The DU are so contemptuous of Dave that this additional charge is not even featuring on the Agenda for the Nov meeting of the EU finance ministers.

I wish with all my heart that we could flick the middle finger at these arseholes and get out of the EU now. Dave could have a Churchillian moment by doing this. The country would be behind him.
I am just wondering how much more of this he will suck up before his humiliation is complete and he actually starts to realise that the EU might actually be a poisonous corrupt institution. It is certainly making him look very very weak indeed and, as Osama Bin Laden was fond of telling us, people don't follow weak horses.

Who knows, he may even join UKIP ( Cameron I mean, not Osama cos the Americans say they've killed him)

WetAugust ... yet another anti typical misinforming EU diatribe from you, pretending a UKIP with just 3.1% of the 2010 General Election ENSURED Cameron with a minority government is unable to get such changes through parliament to change British Law, even if he wanted to,

'Drip, drip, drip' of EU bitching, voting UKIP makes worse by ensuring Miliband who luvs the EU will be in power in 2015, saying, 'how quickly do you want the £1.7 billion Mr Junckers, sir'.

The Conservatives are getting us out of this mess, the figures show that for anyone with half a brain to find them, but Labour only had plans to tax us to growth, and what were UKIP's big plans in 2010?

Farage wanted to LOWER taxes for the rich with a 31p Flat Rate of TAX to include National Insurance.

Farage wanted to take Public Sector employment back to 1997 levels, firing what, up to 2 million Public Sector employees?

Farage wanted to freeze Public Sector Pensions, to bring them in line with the Private Sector, which would be a big 'real term' cut taking place over many years.

Farage in 2010 wanted to build 3 new train lines t' north, before flip flopping and deciding it was political advantageous not to build ONE e.g. HS2.

Etc etc etc.

Blair is being tricksy, as even he must realise that if UKIPs vote is 11% plus (remembering in 2010 the 3% was what, just under 1 million votes), Miliband will form the next government for sure.

No doubt the EU are trying to wring every last penny out of us in case we actually do leave, and they know Dave will hand it over without a murmur. I can almost feel the people of Britain just willing him to show some guts and do something to stick up for us but I fear it ain't gonna happen.

No Pixel, it won't happen. He'll pay and stay in the club but all he will be doing is kicking the Dan further down the road.

The EU will come back for me and more money from the UK.

It's actually a firm of communism. Every gets their share whether they work hard and are successful or whether they fail to govern their country well

I am sick to the back teeth with it. It makes the MP expenses scandal look like child's pocket money compared to the Billions we cheerfully hand over to Brussels to squander.

I am actually thinking if joining a Ukip as a protest, fir the last 2 decades I have been a silent supporter. I can't stay silent any longer. It's time to get out in the streets and educate people into what the EU is costing them I.e. Our EU payments are the equivalent of 2p on the basic rate on income tax!

Milliband will form the next Govt for sure

I font think so.

Milliband is unelectable just as Foot and Kinnock also were

Milliband foes not have the full support if his party as even some Labour ZmPs are telling him to step Dow. The public does not vote for divided parties

The Scottish Labour Party leader has just stepped down stating that labour in Westminster us out of touch

the TU that selected him as leader us looking Around for alternatives

Blair allegedly thinks Milliband us not up to the job

all this filters down to the voter.

There will always be those who gave inherited the Labour gene but those numbers are diminishing and fir dime Labour voters alternative parties are available.

So I think that Cameron will scrape in with the largest number of seats,. They will not get an overall majority but with Confidence and support from NI parties and others, they may achieve a working majority.

After all, the other parties which would form any coalition would also look at the alternative and I doubt they could stomach a Milliband leadership

"If Mark Reckless, the former Tory MP who switched to Ukip, holds his Rochester and Strood seat on 20 November, the Tories fear two more defections. Ukip has dumped its candidate in South Basildon and East Thurrock in the hope of persuading John Baron, the Tory MP for neighbouring Basildon and Billericay, to jump ship. Farage is also keeping a winnable seat warm for another Tory defector in Boston and Skegness, where the Tory former minister Mark Simmonds is standing down.

Ukip is on a roll.
...
Tory modernisers who were part of the original Cameron project to reform the “nasty party” are worried the Prime Minister will continue to toss bones to the sceptics in the hope of wooing back voters who have switched to Ukip."

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/taking-on-ukip-requires-a-delicate-balancing-act-for-both-main-parties-9817245.html

Cameron hasn't got enough bones to satisfy the ravenous hordes of sceptics. It's getting desperate.

Ah, got it, that may be why they sacked their candidate in the neighbouring seat to John Baron's current seat.

I stopped reading the Indie when it stopped being independent and moved to the Left.

as for that newspaper article describing Boris as. Credible candidate. ... Words fail me

I thought Boris had already joined UKIP the other week when he was spouting all their ideas as if he'd thought them up all by himself .

'describing Boris as. Credible candidate'

It's because they are desperate.