Tory MP Mark Reckless defects to UKIP

[claig]

Panic in elite circles

IsiTmebut

According to legal advice... You can listen to that legal advice on BBC iplayer about 6.30 PM last night when they interviewed A Cambridge Peofessor of EU law and also a former EU Commissioner who moth stated that immigration would be illegal and that Cameron would never get the necessary agreement of all 28 member states and that Treaty Amendment was the only vehicle to initiate any proposed changes and that it would never happen and that tinkering with secondary legislation would lead to a challenge in the European Court.

That's very sound legal advice to me. If I could link to Iplayer I would - but I can't.

Yes Puffin, UKIPm has had to hold its nose to enable it to trough with the rest unfortunately as Schulz decided to destroy the existing grouping - very democratic of him

Of course EFDD is the only anti EU grouping in the European Parliament. This Polish MEP is just a tool ( in many ways) that enables UKIP to gain funding from the EU to spread its anti EU message. Just like the Tory grouping gets funding to spread the pro EU message. Needs must. It doesn't mean that UKIP has adopted this MEPs views or will promote them.

Anyway, the whole EU was set up by Nazis and F assists in the first place so if you are pro EU you are following the blueprint that was drawn up by the Nazis in 1942.

UKIP are just a sad group of numb-nuts who dish out so much shit, but think everything that happens to them in a 'plot'.

When a DJ from a generation of DJs who allegedly like to 'abuse' the British public, starts to abuse ALL their ears via an ethic song, with an ethnic message, any criticism, is 'a plot'.

Just listening to one of UKIP's Deputy Leaders Paul Allnut (or something like that) on the Daily Politics blaming a Daily Mail survey asking detailed questions on voter opinions of Mr Reckless (he mentioned himself the other day), they are calling it a Conservative 'plot'.

'Stuff' happens in politics, as in life, UKIP can't stage everything their own way, in a pub, with a pint and stupid fake smile on a face

Link to radio 5 bbc iplayer

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04lnykm

John Redwood confirms that cameron cannot control immigration at 1:38:36

Cambridge Prof Catherine Barnard explains camerons 9lack of options) at 2:19:09

then they interview an ex Commissioner.

Perhaps now you will understand that Camermessiah is talking out of his ass

BTW this single Polish MEP (not a party?) that enabled Farage to get back a £million or so funding and regain a front seat to abuse Eurocrats rather than promote British interests - who approached THIS one, your rich backer Mr Wheeler, in his Mayfair eatery, at his favourite table he offered incentives to Mr Carswell? lol

Democratic politics, UKIP style.

So its just a coincidence that Schulz decides to offer to the MEP that has been propping up EFDD a job in deepest darkest Kazahstan - which is probably beyond her wildest dreams for a minority MEP - and in doing so it just ahppens to collapse the EFDD and stop UKIPS funding.

Oh yes I'll buy that coincidence.

Don't take my word for it - look at the backgrounds of the EU founder members for yourself. You could not make up 'conspiracies' that are as vile as the reality.

WetAugust ..... they said Maggie wouldn't get an EU rebate, they said Cameron couldn't get us out of various EU contributions, they said Cameron wouldn't dare veto an EU policy - wait and see sweetcheeks, for 2-years Cameron and Osborne were not only laughed at at PMQT, they were told by Labour that the French public sector 'spend your way to growth'.

The Conservatives for 35-years have been told for 35-years what was not EU or economically possible, and proved them all wrong, to the benefit of this country.

All we DO know, is that the geezer with a pint that you religiously follow KNOWING full well that he has lied to you and the public for 20-years, is CAST IRON GUARANTEED NOT TO DELIVER EU/IMMIGRATION exits or reform.

Test number One. you have to believe that the EU needs to be changed.

Cameron fails this first test

On 1st nov 14 Cameron will sign away another raft of Uk power to the EU, in fling reaffirming the EAW. he needn't do so - he us choosing to give away our power.

And you expect me to believe he us serious about EU reform

I went to the trouble of finding you a link to Prof Barnards opinion that you accused me of making up.

I do hope you've had the opportunity to listen to it because when it comes to an opinion on EU law and it's a it's up between a) the views if an eminent academic in the subject and b) TrustMeDave I know who I prefer to believe.

That tubby Portu-geezer Barasso yesterday said 'Thatcher would not have reacted so much to UKIP', which shows just what that Euro willy wipe understands of the UK Conservative Party; Thatcher would not have doubled/trebled NON Eu citizens immigration at the same time as opening the doors to 500 million EU citizens. Thatchers 'small State' doctrine wouldn't have increased a quangoed public sector by a million workers while the Private Sector lost jobs etc.

In other words, Thatcher would not have made the same immigration and economic mistakes of the 2000s that gave 'the people' so many genuine gripes - and UKIP so much oxygen - IN THE FIRST PLACE.

WetAugust ... why the bare faced lie that Cameron does not believe the EU needs reform?

If you were talking about a current Labour government I'd agree with you, as they run the UK similar to the EU, 'fat state, money no object', model.

The direction of the EU as an entity, is against EVERY Conservative principle, as proved over the past 35-years - but the original 'common market' is, hence a wish to try and get back 'as was', and if not, NO Conservative Party would want to stay in.

Re the link you kindly posted, sadly I don't have sound on my old whirlygig (in dire need of replacement), but I'll try to find a hard copy - but in the meantime, would you like me to find for your the letters from not one, but 20-30 economists, sent to both Thatcher and Osborne, telling them their plans won't work?

P.S. Please show me the link on what you allege to be 'signed away' on November 1st.

Thatcher gave us the S ingle European Market.

I've thought long and hard about why we are in the situation we currently are.

My analysis is that Thatcher really wanted a trade agreement but went along with the EU and turned a blind eye to the real objectives of the E u which she knew would have ultimately resulted in political union.

Major actually did quite a good stalling act. He had to sign Maastricht of get out. He fudged the issue with the Euro opt out, which just kicked the can further down the street.

Cameron does not seem to understand the EU at all. He was educated in establishments that were steeped in British history. You think some of it would have worn off on him. Instead he just gives the can another kick. He talks the talk but it's just rhetoric. Signing up again to the EAW will be unforgivable and will end hundreds of years of British common law rights.

This can kicking cannot go on forever. We will eventually be forced by the EU to join up to the Euro and cede total sovereignty to Brussels. That is the end game. It won't happen on Cameron's watch, but I strongly suspect the EU will try to get as much as it an out of idiot Ed and then the Tories and UKIP will have to he it'd to save this nation. At that stage even Cameron would have to admit that the can can't be kicked any further.

This about the EAW. We get asked to extradite more people than any other EU member and the bulk of those requests come from France and Poland.

You can see that weve been applying some tests that the EU consider to be in total contradiction to the agreement which means they could be challenged in the EC.

europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-07-288_en.htm

This BBC article shows that the Whips have been taking soundings as to whether the Uk should opt in. Teresa May appears to think we need it.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29656495

Its the EAW that was used to jail Ayesha Kings parents. Its been used by Poland to seek the extradition of peety theives - i seem to remember one was accused of stealing a wheelbarrow in Polnad.

I dont have Economist links as I dont know about the articles you were talking about.

WetAugust ... re that stupid Thatcher allegation re ultimate aim of political union, you've said that before on the Politics page and I disproved it with all the treaty 'opt outs' and 'anti' statements to the contrary, at the time - do you want me to dig it up again?

As to those 'stuck in' views you need to believe, in order to support a prat who has lied to you for 20-years, you may not have faith on a Tory policy to deliver an EU referendum, but as that is our only chance to leave, others would like to see it through - and the upside to armchair anarchists like you, is if with a majority it is not delivered, then the Conservative Party would be finished.

A vote Farage get Miliband will pan hole the UK economy and then we'll NEED to stay in the EU, to rely on handouts from 28 or so other states - which is why socialists luv the EU, as they KNOW they'll run out of money sooner or later.

I think you need to explain what you are talking about.

The stated aim of the EU is "ever closer union". This is indisputable. Ever closer union results in political union - fact

Sonwhat bit about That her are you disagreeing with a) that she didn't know what the ultimate objective was b) she knew full well but chose to ignore it as she wanted the trade benefits?

Because it's got to be one or the other. Unless you are suggesting that Thatcher was a pro federalist which she quite clearly was not. That's what led to her downfall.

WetAugust .. we have gone over this before, I'll find the whole post/thread for you to remember what rollocks you suggesting to deflect from Farage...but meanwhile, something a little more 'current' re Cameron's confidence in limiting immigration.

”Two Pillar EU Offers PM Hope On Migration”

news.sky.com/story/1356889/two-pillar-eu-offers-pm-hope-on-migration

“But something may have changed. Foreign Secretary Phillip Hammond went to Berlin last month and met with important ministers.”

“He thinks he has found an appetite for reform and not just limits on benefits. It hinges upon the creation of a two pillar Europe, with the eurozone at the centre with a shared currency, banking, fiscal system and total freedom of movement. And a second pillar with the UK in it, with none of the first three, and some limits on inward freedom of movement for some countries.”

Isitmebut

Don't think I want to deflect from Farage. far from it. I have just been watching his latest performance in the EU Parliament thanking Mr Barroso for telling the truth and agreeing with him that Dave I'd totally deluded. Great speech.

Isitmebut

Dave is a loser Phil Hammond is a joke.

They are still kicking the can

the best thing you can do is get yourself some speakers and listen to the opinion of a top academic lawyer - I gave you the link.

Anyway, I'm fed up with this point scoring nonsense on here. You never actually answer any points you just deflect. you have a very misplaced and misguided unshakeable belief in Dave. Well good luck.

I personally think Dave will get in at the GE as Ed will do something daft and UKIP will probably have imploded by then.

Once Dave has ticked his Win The GE off his To Do List I expect he will completely forget about all those promises he made to achieve it. like he did to the Scots. like he did over the Lisbon Treaty

And in 2020 we'll repeat the whole sorry exercise as GE promises the earth to win that years election.

I am sooooooo boored with it all.

Someone - a Jewish friend - sent this to me today. Unverifiable unfortunately.

What do you think? Utter tosh?

"Nigel Farage suffered a blow when his EU grouping in the European parliament collapsed, depriving UKIP and its allies of millions of pounds in funding.

His Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy group was forced to disband after Iveta Grigule, a Latvian member of the group, resigned.

This left the group with only MEPs from six EU member states, one below the number needed to qualify for official group status, and meant that not only would UKIP no longer qualify for the £1m p.a. that it was receiving, but would also have to pay back what it had already been given.

Now, 5 days later, Farage has managed to sign up the group an MEP from the Congress of the New Right party, an extreme Polish group, so extreme that Marine Le Pen of the French Front National refused to join up with it because of its leader’s pro-Nazi sympathies, saying that it held views “contrary to our values”.

Amongst other statements by its leader, Korwin-Mikke, was that Hitler “was not aware of the extermination of the Jews”.

It's not utter tosh, it's fact.

The groupings in the EU parliament need to comprise MEPs from (I think) 6 separate EU member states. UKIPs group is called the EEFD and had this Latvian MEP as a member, so the EEFD qualified for the additional funding that is available tobeach recognised group.

then Martin Schulz decided to offer the Latvian MEP an ambassadorial role as EU rep to Kazakhstan, which forced to have to resign from the Eu, meaning the Ukip group no longer had the right mix of MEPs in its group and would be denied funding.

This was just bully boy tactics by Schulz who Faragechas had several run ins with in the last - they are all available to watch on Youtube coverage if the EU parliament business.

The EEFD was able to reform by allowing this latest MEP to join. The views that you described are not his views but those of the leader of his party and it's clear that he has only joined the group as a marriage of convenience that enabled EEFD to continue to receive funding, His views are not the views of UKIP.

It would be easy to feel outraged about this but, they are not his views and in this country and most of Europe ( not Germany) his party leader is free to scores whatever views he wants to as we have freedom of speech. We should also note that he managed to get himself elected o he has a legitimate democratic right to be there.

The EEFD is the only anti EU grouping in Brussels. Schulz would love to see it fold. It would be a very poor day for democracy if views that ran contrary to federalism were Automatically stamped on by bullies like Schulz. So UKIP is holding its nose, using this MEPs presence in the group to pass the qualifying test that enables the EEFD to be funded in the same way as all the other MEP groupings are.

Of course Schulz offered the job go the Latvian knowing that UKIP would either have to join Le Penn or accept this other new member and in full knowledge that the media would then try to smear UKIP. But the public are not stupid and could see right through his tactics.

Oh. You talk of it in such a blase (sp) manner.

"The views that you described are not his views but those of the leader of his party and it's clear that he has only joined the group as a marriage of convenience that enabled EEFD to continue to receive funding, His views are not the views of UKIP"

This bothers me. Who is UKIP affiliating itself with? You join a party, you accept the view of the leader.

Sod marriage of convenience. That IS tosh.

Sorry but it really seems like UKIP doesn't care who it gets involved with in order to maintain its presence.

Now that is scary.

I will be broadcasting this because I think it's terrifying actually.

You can present it as not much, purely tactical, blah blah. Oh, the common man sees through it. Bollocks.

broadcast away

You really are dreadfully confused. hardly surprising when your OP sounded all nice and innocent and questioning when in reality I think your real purpose was to get confirmation of what your imaginary friend had emailed you, if you had any interest in politics you could have looked for confirmation in any if the UK daily newspapers inline

It's all propaganda by the EU to smear and disenfranchise UKIP. It's a shame that dome people are so dim that they swallow the EU bait, hook line and sinker.

Broadcast away.

Don't forget we had the racist chant, now were getting the Holocaust denying accusation.

Next week they'll tell you that we eat babies and because of Ukip all the bees have died.

If you're going to take an interest in politics start by looking behind the headlines that they want yo feed you and start questioning and analysing.

Then you may just start to realise in whose interest it us that you are being told done thing ( to paraphrase Tony Benn)

Aren't you worried that UKIP will associate with such people?

Attack me as you wish. Whatever.

Aren't you at all concerned?

Everyone is out to smear UKIP. Denigrate UKIP.

Really?

I think people are genuinely worried what UKIP actually represents.

I'm not at all concerned.

Farage says he has never even met this MEP.

If the EU makes up dopey rules about its groupings and then attempts to deny UKIP it's voice in the parliament by luring away a key member of UKIPs grouping, the EU cannot feign horror / disgust / shock when UKIP is then forced to do exactly what the EU had planned for UKIP.

This MEP does not hold a holocaust denying view. Even if he find he is entitled to free speech. His leaders views are not UKIPs views.

I would rather UKIP held its nose and permitted this idiot into its grouping than for UKIP to deny itself a grouping and the resources that go with a recognised grouping, Tobdobtahtvwould be to deny their electorate a voice in the EU parliament - just as Schulz had planned. That's not democracy.

Sometimes in politics parties have to be pragmatic. I dare say that Ian Paisley didn't welcome having to sit down with Martin McGuiness but he didn't have to adopt his views in order to work alongside him

Anyway, happy broadcasting. the devious underhand tactics of the EU could do with a wider airing.

Love these threads always so funny watching wetaugust and Claig defending the indefensible.

Have they got an actual manifesto yet?

Froth froth.