Tory MP Mark Reckless defects to UKIP

[claig]

Panic in elite circles

It'll be interesting to see how Unison and Unite react when they ate told that their Red Ed has to be replaced.

So much of interest at the mo

Will Reckless keep Rochester and what will the Tory reaction be

Will Labour ditch Ec. I don't think so

How will the eventual coalition be formed?

Laura Perrins is excellent. She is the SAHM who roasted that spinner Clegg on radio and was on Newsnight once and put the Tory modernisers in their place.

I hope UKIP snap her up. She'd make a blancmange out of the progressives, she'd chew the spinners up and spit them out for breakfast. She'd even give Farage, man of the people, a run for his money.

"The Conservative party have decided to stop insulting its core vote, calling them bigots and fruitcakes, only to threaten them instead. Do not vote for Ukip, we are told like naughty little school children, or you will get Labour instead."
...
What, pray tell, could Labour do that will be worse than the Cameroons?
...
What the Tories do not understand is that middle-class traditional families expect a disadvantage under Labour. We can prepare for that. What we do not expect is to be spat at by the Tories - who allegedly represent us. So you will have to excuse me if I withhold my vote.

Your policy on Europe is laughable. Every European lawyer in the land knows you will not get any meaningful reform on free movement of persons. But we do know that you will offer some ludicrously small change as ‘reform’ and campaign to remain in the Union on that basis. Do you take us for fools? Don’t answer that.

You spread fear that Labour will trash the economy. Perhaps they will, but a calculated gamble tells me that Labour will be so grateful for gaining power, and so fearful of being seen as spending-crazed communists like their last administration, they will not cause too much damage overall. Anyway, you have borrowed more in this term than Gordon Brown in his entire tenure.

The Tories should stop ridiculing people for expressing some fear over the future. From their lofty elevated tower up on Mount Pompous, the millionaires tell all to shut up over immigration. But people are fearful for their jobs, their families, and their homes. Unless you address this, it is time to start the resignation speech."

conservativewoman.co.uk/laura-perrins-vote-ukip-get-labour-daves-version-politics-fear/

Drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, the misinformation continues to aid Mr Carswell’s major ‘change’ of recalling MP’s on UKIP’s misinformation, to be replaced by sitting Conservative MP’s that UKIP’s candidates and flip flopping policies couldn’t.

So lets have a look at poster Spinflight and the Spinnets misinformation in just 3 posts on this page.

Spinflight …. Is this the “TTIP that will put the nail in the NHS coffin” we discussed on the Politics page some time ago and with WetAugust recently below, where companies want protection from major government projects i.e. NHS IT project and the Aircraft carriers where ‘specs’ change WITHIN the time of one administration and often cancelled by the next?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2171845-TTIP-Latest-EU-deal-threatens-our-NHS

Is this the same Farage led UKIP whose vote winning 2010 policies was to SLASH the NHS/Public Sector and Private Sector were as below, who now wants to champion the Public Sector and not have ONE (HS2) train line – can you hear ‘the flip, flops’ getting louder from where you are, I can.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8617187.stm

• “Reduce public sector to 1997 size, diverting two million jobs to manufacturing and industry”

• “Ensure "comprehensive electrification" of rail lines and introduce three high-speed lines linking London to the Midlands, northern England and Birmingham”

WetAugust …. Do not worry if Reckless wins on November 20th, as poaching Conservatives appear to be the ONLY way UKIP can get an MP – and the coalition in 2015 ruining the recovery will be a Conservative or Labour largest party, with a permutation of the Lib Dems, Scottish SNP, Irish Unionists, Welsh PC, UKIP and Greens – an unworkable train crash seen in Italy for decades that achieved little other than their economic decline and massive National Debt prior to the crash.

Claig …. I would/could answer every one of your points, but they really are so lacking in factual content to suit the UKIP agenda, I’d ask you to pick two, any two, and ask me to answer ithem - and if I PROVE you are talking continual bollocks, you will apologise to the board. Deal or no Deal?

If I felt your "answers" would be anything other than the usual smattering of garbled gibberish and gobbledegook mingled with misinformation and more errors, blunders and holes than all the cheese in Switzerland, then of course I would be delighted to accept the challenge. But sadly, based on past painful experience of wading through what you call an "answer", I think it is best if I decline.

Claig … I see you have been studying ‘the art of repartee’. Lol

Look I could be kind and say that the reason you so gush over Farage and a UKIP who has lied to ‘the people’ for 20-years on their abilities to DO ANYTHING on our EU Membership and immigration, is because you are not a ‘facts’ person – but I can’t be that kind, as you spout so much main party MISINFORMATION that has been clarified on this board time and time again – but you are clearly not alone.

So when you have any CONVICTION on what you are probably being told what to say, gissa shout and we can debate it like grown ups.

Just heard new UKIP Carswell speak an PMQT; and what was the earthquake in politics to make all our lives better by reducing the deficit, increasing people's living standards and facing up to a dangerous world slump getting worse by the month - it was joining a Conservative Zac Goldsmith (who's late entrepreneurial father's skills have clearly not rubbed off) in thinking MP 'recall' is THE most important issue on the minds of those who vote for them.

UKIP; what a waste of a vote, if ex Conservative MP's who join UKIP and gain POWER for Farage, just then support other Conservative MP's 'motions'.

Claig … re “The Tories should stop ridiculing people for expressing some fear over the future.” – this is a topical point, that UKIP will influence for the worse.

I guess you did not see Newsnight last night, as separate to whether Labour’s policies similar to those in France would have given us such a flat growth, near record unemployment economy as well – they were looking at the GLOBAL situation, which we depend on, which looks dire and similar to the early 1990’s Japan’s financial caused recession, called (prematurely) ‘The Lost Decade’, as it lasted over two decades.

In a nutshell, it looks that the world is entering a SUSTAINED low growth but too low inflation period, resulting in a negative affect on wages, future business investment and new jobs, and positive affect of ‘inflating away’ existing debt e.g. mortgages, that wrinklies like me, until now worried about the Base Rate 'normalising' to between 4-5%, remember helped us pay down our mortgages.

From 2015 IMO in such a world, the UK in order to continually help low private sector wage growth, is to keep taxes as low as possible by keeping the cost of government/public sector down as much as possible – as in such an external and internal UK economic environment, INCREASING taxes to reduce the budget deficit and/or go back to fat government, will take us on the road to France.

Andrew Neil pre PMQT hit upon the problem of why the Deficit has not fallen more, the UK tax take has not increased much from the growth and new employment we have already seen since 2010 – but then again fails to recognise the much needed tax cuts to help that business growth and help our ‘cost of living’ pressures, plus new pension formula increases etc.

There is a very fine balance when ANY government is facing the highest (nominal) deficit in Europe, but also needing to pay our annual bills and services, growing the economy/jobs and trying to compensate for a low inflation, low wage rise environment, where the vast majority of our employers if not struggling now, will do so NEXT year and beyond.

The French (and Labour) penal taxes and corporate bashing was clearly not the answer until now, and looking forward - that anti competitive strategy can only make matters worse – therefore the voters need to understand what ideology, no matter how imperfect, creates the sustainable economy and which one does not. Simples.

Former Mayor of Belfast has defected to UKIP from UUP

Still they keep coming

Will the last one out please turn off the light?

Errrr …. When you say Bob Stoker is “former Major of Belfast” to impress, may I suggest that 1999 was nearly another age ago, and rumour has it since then, there have been quite a few others to keep their ‘lights on’?

Please correct me if wrong but he is not an MP, this new ‘man of the people’ last tried in 2007 to get elected to the Northern Ireland Assembly and came 9th out of 18 candiates, amassing 3.7% of the vote.

Similar to the other UKIP candidates Farage calls “rejects” from other political partys (as Farage says they are “dregs of rejects” when they leave UKIP) finding they are not seen within their current leadership as someone going places, I see Mr Stoker has made the UKIP obligatory statements alone the lines of “I have tried to communicate with my leadership” and “they have forgotten about the people “ – which is political speak for ‘no one in the party cares what I say’, and with 3,7% of a vote ‘the people doesn’t care for what I say’. lol

ISITMEBUT

What a silly ramble.

He WAS mayor of Belfast, as I said he was.

He is not an MP. I never said he was.

Anyway. UKIP now on 19% for the 2nd night in a row.

Oh, and I meant yo say, It takes much more than a persons job title to impress me.

Not a good day for the Tories today.

WetAugust …… Re your “Not a good day for the Tories today”, I disagree, but I think it depends on an individuals perspective.

Personally I thought I had a great day, as I saw pathetic UKIP attempts to spin their way to votes on just one of the pages they are guilty of, and I not only (factually) challenged a whole page of UK mistruths and misplaced gloating from The Three Farage Stooges, frankly, I kicked arse. Lol

Re the Conservative Party as a whole, while I clearly disagree with ex banker Lord Freud’s words (as per the post I started) even if taken out of context as I think he should resign, but including Mr Newmark, there seems to be ‘problems’ with ex ‘real job’ City folk in public office as they seem to love themselves more than others, even taking photos of their ‘tackle’ to prove it. Lol

Ex City Farage of course in NEVER misspoken, as his racial, immigration, gay, HIV and other slurs are on behalf of ‘the people’ and attracts votes from those people.

The Conservative led government had this other ‘news’ today, that some may find socially more important than Mr Freud’s words and UKIP’s spin/gloating on here, but I guess you were too busy to notice it and put it in context with the rising near record high unemployment in Europe.

We will be affected by the world slump going on from here, but voters have to decide which party has the economic credibility to get the UK through it as painless as possible, and it ain't UKIP MP's trying to bring more muckers into Westminster via 'recall'.

(October 15th) UK Unemployment Falls below 2 million.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29627831

• The number of jobless people fell by 154,000 to 1.97 million in the three months to the end of August, the Office for National Statistics said.
• The drop, which is bigger than analysts expected, took the unemployment rate to 6%, its lowest level since late 2008.
• But wage growth remained stubbornly below the current 1.2% inflation rate.
• In total, there are now 30.76 million people in work.

Good news you say?

Just think how low the unemployment rate would have been had all these UK based jobs not been taken by immigrant EU workers?

Best thing I heard yesterday was that Dave untended to ask his EU masters very nicely if if could actually stop EU immigration for a little while ( I expect that mean until after the election)

Ceasing immigtration from EU member states is a UKIP policy. Dave has defected ideologically, while remaining Tory PM.

On the face of it brilliant.

But oops! Hevcant stop immigration because he is bound by EU law to let every Roma, Greek, Basque, German, Swede.........

And ask for getting agreement from our EU masters, well France has already so No to restrictions on the free travel of EU citizens and Merkel says she would never agree.

So. More empty promises from Dave,

The problem for Dave is that we all know they are empty.

We won't get fooled again

WetAugust … please get ‘real’ as the United Kingdom Independence Party have been running on “empty” for 20-years pretending that THEY have some magic solution to sort out the EU/Immigration, and have financially benefited from that mistruth via 24 MEPs – and clearly want Miliband bringing Labour back into power in 2015, to ensure this ‘party of the people’ scam continues into Westminster.

Cameron’s plan on immigration yesterday, as you say is a great idea but against a core principal of the EU I’ve recently mentioned on the post below, but lets see, but what is the alternative, a UKIP vote where there is NO HOPE of any EU reforms in ANYTHING that would benefit the UK in the months/years ahead – and also lose out on an opportunity via a Referendum for people to have their say?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2208058-UKIP-s-1st-MP-Clacton-s-Carswell-has-the-gig-so-what-is-UKIPs-change

Re UK Unemployment, please show me your data that all the jobs from 2010 have been taken by migrants, as while you would have a case from the 2000s under a Labour government (Farage would love to prop up from 2015 for Westminster gain) where some stats would show it was up around 90% - I doubt your typical UKIP rant is true.

An example of that would be the unemployed 16-24 year olds, worryingly trending up from over 500,000 in 2004, with well over 900,000 passed on to the coalition, went much higher still, but now with tax/benefits/NI/education reforms and apprenticeships, are back down to 2007 700,000 levels we had in 2007 – all work in progress that a UKIP/Labour dream coalition would destroy.

no need to waste time on a long response Isitmebut when you have had to admit that Canerons idea on immigration is a total I enforceable non starter because while we are in the EU we have NO control over our borders.

He knows that. The uk public knows that

So all he can do us make hollow promises.

I don't care what UKIP can / cannot do. What UKIP has / has not achieved in the last 20 years

ALL totally irrelevant

Bottom line is that inability to control immigration is THE election issue and all Cameron has is a hollow promise.

WetAugust .…… how can a UKIP, who claims to be ‘the peoples’ EU, immigration, political equivalent of penicillin, say their policies in Brussels and Westminster are irrelevant – especially when continual electoral dishonesty aside, it will ensure we have a pro EU, economically incompetent Labour governing us from 2015, with all the dangers of the 2000s re-emerging?

An EU of what, 28 countries, would have to have had a core policy of ‘freedom of movement’ within, but many things have changed from the several (economically mature) founder members back when John Wayne was still a cowboy.

That ‘freedom of movement’, mainly from the new economically emerging accession States, was theoretically possible during global economic normal –to-boom periods, but clearly has found to have been a flawed theory during the FIRST western major recession.

NOW the UK is being punished by the EU for it’s economic success by attracting many workers from the old mature Eurozone States, but as the UK found in the 1970’s, a youth, skills, ‘braindrain’ from your economy, especially with no sign it will end by economically growing yourself – will be worrying all those Eurozone countries LOSING them to the UK and will want it to stop, as economic migration will restrict their own growth levers to escape their slump.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11143622/Is-France-really-finished.html

So while Cameron, the old Eurozone members and new accession States would be coming at the urgent immigration ‘problem’ from different perspectives, there WOULD BE a common ground, especially within the more powerful Eurozone Members, to STOP/RESTRICT ECONOMIC MIGRATION. for an extended period of time, rather than permanently.

And hopefully long enough to get us to a 2017 EU Referendum, if UKIP don’t fuck it up, for a selfish power grab for Westminster seats, that would achieve absolutely NOTHING on this issue and ensure NOTHING would be done on it until at least 2020.

I don't really want to respond to Tories anymore,

Parris has written an article about the rise of the Nazi party and the popularism of Ukip.

Then CCHQ proudly announce that the PM will be appointing top civil servants from now which is the most cynical and political action that any PM has done to the CS since Thatcher took away the trade union rights at GCHQ

So Isitmebut you can bang on as much as you want about the Tories or why UKIP is .......

But I SHALL NEVER NEVER VOTE TORY AGAIN

GOT THAT??

NEVER

Easy tiger, I don't give a flying f-f-f- monkies what you do, I'm trying to balance Farage's Three Stooges brainwashing spin on here, for which you clearly have no intelligent answer - and as I've likened UKIPs electoral nationalist M.O. to far right parties off the 1930's for at least a month on here (of which Einstein, Germany was one) - that Mr Parris sounds right up my Strasse.

It would appear that the alleged Conservative £££ donor, the Conservatives had never heard of, that for practical reasons beyond me, turned up to the Conservative Conference to give UKIP £100,000 – but on hearing a Haig football terraces ‘WHO’, to the announcement of his name, indignantly upped it to £1 million - well he may be just filling a new UKIP funding shortfall.

As UKIP with 24 MEPs who could never change anything in Europe, from Europe, by protesting, have just lost most of their Brussels ‘speaking time’, their right to insult European bureaucrats in grey suits, and other financial benefits - as their coalition of (being kind) protesters, having lost one Member, relegates them much poorer, to the cheap seats of Brussels.

Nigel Farage's anti-EU European Parliament group collapses after Latvian MEP leaves

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/nigel-farages-antieu-european-parliament-group-collapses-after-mep-leaves-9799051.html

"Ukip’s run of success came to an abrupt halt today, when the political group it had formed at the European Parliamentcollapsed in a fiasco that could cost the party £1m a year."

"Under the EU parliament’s rules, groups must have 25 MEPs from at least seven countries to qualify for public funding. Nigel Farage is frantically trying to attract a replacement for Iveta Grigule, the only Latvian MEP in his Europe of Freedom and Democracy (EFDD) group."

No doubt the collapse of his rag-tag, fragile. right wing coalition, is a European 'dirty tricks' political plot against the master of political black arts - and he'll be trying to buy someone elses sitting MEPs with the promise of POWER, to get what he wants. lol

instead of crowing over UKIPs EU Parliament difficulties it would be sensible to ask

A) why are some MEPs receiving more money from the EU than others? After all, regardless of 'groupings' each MEP represents real constituents. So some constituents are worth more than others?

B) why we permit this colossal waste of Uk tax payers Monet. The Uk gives the EU £55 million pounds a day and the EU hands it out to political parties. (And the BBC and Greenpeace,,,,)

C) don't you think that money could be better spent on Uk spending for the uk citizens that paid that tax in the first place

yet another example of EU profligacy

Tory MEP snouts still firmly in the EU trough

"Breaking news - Ukip's candidate for Basildon and East Thurrock deselected for "big fish"
...
"They want a big fish and I think another high profile Mp, Labour or Tory, could be about to defect to Ukip and they will be the parliamentary prospective candidate for this seat."

www.thurrockgazette.co.uk/news/11543026.BREAKING__Ukip_s_candidate_for_Basildon_and_East_Thurrock_deselected_for__big_fish_/

Absolute panic in establishment party circles. Weekend plans scrapped, crisis meetings likely to be convened.

UKIP did quite badly in a council by election in Thurrock last night.

Did they? I'm surprised.

Its true Claig, but reading YOUR link, I suspect you once again, have the wrong end of the stickleback.

Using the poached Clacton and Rochester fish as an example, UKIP High Command wanting further Westminster success, will be looking to catch ANY other political partys "fish" to stand in plaice of the U-Kipper intellectual 'tiddlers'. routinely released into the constituency pools.

So I'd suggest that the "panic" is UKIP's in realizing that with several months to go, their own ‘fish’ stocks built up over a decade, are political rejects, possibly having inbred.

Cue the underwater banjos, lol