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'Tragic domestic incident' say police - surely that is an awful description (warning - upsetting news story)

97 replies

EverythingCounts · 12/09/2014 14:09

A seven year old girl has been shot in the head, and is 'gravely ill'.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/12/girl-six-shot-northiam-east-sussex

It seems that the person who shot her was her father, who then shot himself. And the police describe this as a 'tragic domestic incident'? Is it just me or is that far too sympathetic a description? I think 'abhorrent violent crime' would be more appropriate. But hey, let's not forget to show sensitivity towards men who shoot kids! Angry

OP posts:
EdithWeston · 13/09/2014 08:36

Well, the plainer language is here already. I had hoped for her recovery and the switch to be therefore somewhat later.

SevenZarkSeven · 13/09/2014 11:19

Same old story, if females want people to take notice of violence against them they need to be dead.

Anything less is seen as not too much of a problem it seems.

I was talking about this with DH this morning and saying that when men kill other men it is never referred to in these mealy-mouthed minimising terms, it is "man has been shot another man fled the scene" or whatever.

Makes me angry. Same as when they put "" around things which they do in a totally inconsistent way and seems to depend on who the victim was as much as anything else.

JohnFarleysRuskin · 13/09/2014 11:23

I don't think being dead is even enough.

There's a good discussion here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2182860-Reeva-Steenkamp-Domestic-Violence-and-Injustice

WinifredTheLostDenver · 13/09/2014 11:24

Oh look, the Mail can do it to a gay victim as well:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1273659/Gay-man-convicted-murdering-partner-sex-marriage.html

"It emerged the killer had a previous conviction for stabbing a ex-partner in the back during a tiff."

A tiff, FFS!!

"

SevenZarkSeven · 13/09/2014 11:26

Partner / family violence is just not taken seriously is it.

Sexual violence either.

They still seem to be seen as "private matters" that people shouldn't make a fuss about until they're, well, dead.

Terrible comments from judges in many interpersonal violence trials.

We need change on this.

Esmum07 · 13/09/2014 11:54

This is why our schools and kids clubs are so careful now about getting parents permission for photos of kids. When I used to work in a community service press office we had to make sure all children we asked to be in a photo (say of a new youth project or someone planting a rose bush with kids in the background for example) had to have a permission slip from their parent. We were moaned at endlessly by parents whose kids didn't bring one so weren't asked to step in.

BUT the reason we did it was that a similar service in another area had included a little boy of about five in a photo of loads of kids at an event. The boy knew he wasn't allowed to be in school event photos but this was outside school but in school time so he didn't think - he was only five! Mum hadn't allowed for the school taking the kids off site and had just said no photos of him to be taken at school other than the usual ones parents pay for. And the school forgot to inform the community service that this boy couldn't be in a photo. This was before almost compulsory permission slips had to be obtained by anyone using a child in a photo. So he ended up in the pbad

He had his school jumper on with a logo. The photo went into the local paper. And a mate of a friend of his father, whom the family had moved to another part of the country to get away from after he landed his wife in hospital, had seen it. They told the friend in passing, not knowing the facts about the family, the friend told the dad. Dad had spun a line about wife walking out on him,taking the kids, not mentioning the broken ribs...the friend thought he was doing the dad a favour (which he was but it wasn't an innocent friend he was reporting back to).

And dad turned up at the house having tailed them from the school gates the following week.

Mum and family then had to move yet again just to get away from him.

So now I try not to moan if photos don't appear in the press of events DS has been in. You never know if there is a young kid who has sneaked in when the photo is being taken and a parent has vetoed the use for safety reasons when they find out. I also Photoshop out any logos on photos of DS if I am sending them to friends via the OC. Paranoid? Probably, but I have seen and heard too much to trust that photo will stay just between me and mate and my boy's safety comes before people laughing at me.
I had an ex abusive hubby and, though DS is by my second marriage, I don't want ex knowing anything about him thank you!

I too cannot understand parents who hurt their kids, presumably to 'teach the other partner a lesson'. Mental illness doesn't come into it. It is selfish control over the other parent. The father has now sentenced that poor mum to wonder what if for the rest of her days. RIP Mary.

Esmum07 · 13/09/2014 11:56

pbad? Should read photo! Argh

Twitterqueen · 15/09/2014 10:48

I don't condone or excuse. These acts are truly awful. And I also don't mean to offend anyone who has a mental illness.

I guess I'm trying to understand what makes someone do such a terrible thing? Outside of being high on drugs or drink.

There was an even worse case last year I believe, when a father stabbed his 3 children to death. So he murdered not once, not twice, but three times, and he didn't 'just' fire a gun from a distance, he held the knife and drove it into their bodies.

Was this man insane, then? Can someone just turn 'evil' as a result of a divorce / separation?

I don't know the answers. I don't think there are any.

edamsavestheday · 15/09/2014 14:00

perfectly sane people do evil things all the time. Do you imagine every violent criminal is insane?

The Mail is reporting that her own solicitor once stupidly gave her ex her address by mistake, and they had to move - but the courts, as per usual, insisted on access. Because the 'rights' of a dangerous violent thug outweigh the fundamental right of a child to be safe. Disgusting.

I hope whoever ordered contact between this evil bastard and his poor daughter hears about this and feels extremely guilty. But I doubt it.

edamsavestheday · 15/09/2014 14:01

And those butchers in ISIS - are they all insane and not responsible for their actions? They know exactly what they are doing and calculate precisely how to have the effect they want.

Just like this bastard. Look up 'family annihilator' if you want to learn more about them - US term.

Thumbwitch · 15/09/2014 14:27

Interestingly, the link in the OP has been updated to say that the poor child died of her injuries, and that the father was the murderer.

I have no sympathy with him whatsoever. He was a violent abusive bastard, and he shot his own daughter because he could and because some stupid fuckwitted lawyers let him have his ex wife's address. They just can't help themselves, can they - despite it all being supposedly about the child's rights, there is still this undercurrent of belief that the father has "rights" too, and that he should be able to have access to his child(ren), no matter how much of a violent murderous fucker he is. And look what happens.

Tragic? Too fucking right it's tragic. Tragic that this was allowed to happen by the system failing to protect victims of DA/DV again. Time this stopped.

AgaPanthers · 15/09/2014 14:41

" because some stupid fuckwitted lawyers let him have his ex wife's address. "

It doesn't say that, it says a PREVIOUS address was included in the letter.

Also it does say that he was allowed contact with his daughter near the school. So it can't have been that difficult to track her down.

Also it appears that he was aware of his wife's Facebook account and had paid (or attempted to pay) a hacker to hack into it.
www.freelancer-job.com/job/?p=19327

It can't have been difficult at all, given that he knew where the girl went to school, and was renting a house locally, to follow her home in preparation for the murder.

Thumbwitch · 15/09/2014 14:46

True. I take it back about the fuckwitted lawyers, but am not taking it back about the system.

rainbowinmyroom · 15/09/2014 14:47

Some people are just evil, selfish fuckwits, Twitter. They just are. History is full of them.

This woman had lost two daughters, Mary Ann's sister died age 8 months, and is a carer for her autistic son.

Life is very, very cruel to some.

edamsavestheday · 15/09/2014 14:49

Oh good Lord, that is tragic re. both daughters. Poor woman. I hope she finds strength and comfort from her son, family and friends and somehow manages to find a way through this - God alone knows how anyone would cope, tbh.

Thumbwitch · 15/09/2014 14:53

Actually no, I'm not even going to take it back about the fuckwitted lawyers - I've just remembered that after the address leak, she had to move again - and it also says in that DM link that "It is not known if Alromisse discovered the new address from court letters" - so if they fucked up once, they could have fucked up again, we just don't know.

edamsavestheday · 15/09/2014 14:56

And it's presumably the courts who insisted on contact, which meant he knew where his daughter went to school. (Given the mother had moved at least twice to get away from him, she was desperately trying to protect her daughter, not hand her over to this evil shit.)

flippinada · 15/09/2014 15:03

This is just utterly heartbreaking. She was trying to keep her children safe from him and couldn't.

If it's true he was able to collect their daughter from school then it's easy to see how he could have traced her to their home address.

He shouldn't have had access in the first place. But we all know why he did.

ExpectedlyMediocre · 15/09/2014 21:20

Just read about other kids ..dear god life is so cruel..the tragedy is he is dead and escaped justice.

AgaPanthers · 20/09/2014 19:53

www.gofundme.com/ejpqc8

AmethystMoon · 20/09/2014 20:22

I worked with the bastard several years ago. The news didn't surprise me in the slightest :(

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