'Tragic domestic incident' say police - surely that is an awful description (warning - upsetting news story)

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A seven year old girl has been shot in the head, and is 'gravely ill'.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/12/girl-six-shot-northiam-east-sussex

It seems that the person who shot her was her father, who then shot himself. And the police describe this as a 'tragic domestic incident'? Is it just me or is that far too sympathetic a description? I think 'abhorrent violent crime' would be more appropriate. But hey, let's not forget to show sensitivity towards men who shoot kids!

Good fathers and kind men don't shoot their children. Full stop.

Good fathers don't kill their children.

Good fathers don't kill their children.

I'll keep saying it till it sinks in.

It hasn't been confirmed that the man was the child's father... Shall we keep saying that until it sinks in?

tragic - very sad; especially involving grief or death or destruction

Seems appropriate to me.

I agree it's inappropriate. If they don't want to confirm details, fine - but calling it this is wrong.

If the police do eventually confirm that the situation is as reported in the Guardian link, then this man is part of a pattern of men who have done this. Personally I do not think it is helpful to talk about whether or not these men are mentally ill (and I find it a bit dubious TBH), but I do think that they must be aware how the strories are reported: they must know that people will call it 'tragic', rather than a more negative term.

If you were the police LRD, needing to put enough facts into the public domain to satisfy the requirement for news but not wishing to reveal private information or prejudice a future inquiry, how would you report this?

As others said, I think. That a child has been shot, and a man has been shot, and the police are not looking for anyone in connection with the event.

Why?

I'm not really blaming individual members of the police as I would guess they have guidance on what to say - I just think it would be better if that guidance were changed.

Is it the word 'domestic' that people are getting upset about here?

I'd be very surprised if it turns out he isn't her father; this sort of crime isn't exactly without precedent. Now that really is tragic (and a lot of other things too).

Btw, I have just seen a link from the NSPCC, which may not be relevant to this specific case (as we don't yet know all the facts), but which is relevant to the other question on the thread that hula raises, of gender.

It shows that there is a very strong gendered pattern here. In my view, that is another reason to avoid terms like 'tragic' and 'domestic', which I think perpetuate the idea that a father killing his child is somehow different from 'ordinary' murders.

www.nspcc.org.uk/Inform/research/briefings/MaleBritishFamilyAnnihilators_wda97968.html

cogito - it's 'tragic domestic incident'. That was the full phrase used.

Cogito, if it turns out not to be the child's father, I'll be surprised.

I read a quote from one of the neighbours that said something like 'he must have been in a real state to do something like that'

The quote had a tone of sympathy for the dead man.

What about some sympathy for the poor mother and children [one of whom is autistic apparently] who had to flee and hide from this man, she is now in hospital going through probably the worst time of her life, which was probably what the shooters intentions were.

People need to stop making excuses for men like this.

Of course anyone would be surprised. We'll also be surprised if the dead man wasn't the one wielding the weapon... but it isn't the only possible outcome, of course.

I still don't think the words 'tragic' or 'domestic' are doing anything pejorative here. We know there's death, injury and a child involved. Whatever the ultimate story, it's tragic and it has taken place in a domestic setting.

It's both 'tragic' and 'domestic' that I'm getting upset about Cogito. 'Tragic', as flippinada says, implies something that is incredibly sad but also somehow inevitable and beyond the arena of blame. It's not the same as saying 'very sad', even if that's in the dictionary; it gives the whole thing a sense of dignity that frankly I don't think it deserves. The man turned up with a gun and shot a child. That's an act of almost unbelievable violence and hate and I think 'tragic' softens all that in a disturbing way.

Likewise 'Domestic' trivialises a violent attack in exactly the way that the way the police used to refer to a husband beating up his wife as 'a domestic' did. It suggests that no-one else needs to be concerned about this, it's 'just' domestic, 'just' confined to a family. I think wider society should be concerned about this. If we took the threat of men shooting women and children (and yes, I know women can be violent too ) as seriously as we take terrorist threats then we'd be getting somewhere in protecting vulnerable children.

I still don't think the words 'tragic' or 'domestic' are doing anything pejorative here.

Yes. That's the point.

Maybe he was so despairing of life that he couldn't bear to be in it for a moment longer and it seemer kinder to his distressed mind to take his daughter with him than to leave her alone (as he might have seen it) to cope with what might have seemed a bleak future.

I think these sorts of stories are terribly tragic. I hope never to understand how a parent could kill their child - because I would imagine it's a terrible place to be.

It is tragic, for the child. It is also a revolting crime by the father.

I'm not sure why we use the description 'domestic'. Is 'family violence' or 'family murder' too upsetting for people?

When I typed 'tragic' into google, the first thing it wanted to complete the phrase with was 'hero'.

The radio 4 play at the end of Woman's hour all week has been a similar 'incident'. Poor poor woman. A mumsnetter perhaps.

'Domestic' doesn't trivialise anything. It simply means 'in-house', 'in-family' i.e. not committed by an outsider or stranger. 'Tragic' is a perfectly good word as well. 'Sad' might be a droopy-eyed puppy. A tragedy is something dramatic and harrowing.

Domestic also implies 'private' 'family business'

Too many times I have heard people talk about seeing or hearing something and they go on to say it was 'just a domestic'

The man and woman involved in what happened yesterday didn't even live together, so why is it 'domestic'? it isn't is it? not at all.

Violence from men towards women and children, should not have a special softened name, it is violence. No excuses.

Tragic is just as bad.

I just read a headline about the 'tragic' accidental death of a well known actresses father. That is a reasonable use of the word.

What happened to that little girl was a horrific murder attempt.

Mmm. Not sure I agree, cogito.

And you did claim yourself to be uncomfortable about speculation on the relationship between the man and the child.

I think knee makes a good point too.

"Tragic domestic incident" doesn't seem to me to convey the seriousness of the event.

How about "Violent crime against child" as a description?

I sincerely doubt it was an accident, but at the moment they are not calling it a crime, I think?

I think they just need the facts, no speculation or elaboration at all. A girl was shot and is in a serious condition; a man is dead. They're not looking for anyone else.

Done.