Conservative Carswell defects to UKIP

[Isitmebut]

Modernizer Carwell won the new Clacton seat in 2010 with a large majority, heavily influenced by Ukip deciding not to stand a candidate themselves – so he has found a natural home with those that have a totally anti EU stance, but seems to forget that Ukip without a parliamentary majority cannot change British law to bring us out.

Claig …… after all your rants about right wing ‘modernizers’, you now own another one – so time for you to ‘jump’ the other way? lol

P.S. His defection was hardly cold, but by 1.30pm Wikipedia had been changed to reflect his defection. Who do you think was in a hurry to reflect his move, Ukip or the Conservatives? lol

Why not just join the BNP? It's more honest.

There's no point whatsoever in being in the European Parliament. It has zero power. That's why UKIP MEPs don't achieve anything because no MEP from whatever party can achieve anything. It's a smokescreen Parliament designed to make the electorate feel involved

The Westminster Parliament is very different. It still gas dome power. If UKIP gets any MPs elected to Westminster I think you'll find they are very active indeed.

WetAugust I thought part of the problem was that the UK parliament doesn't have enough power? That it's all been sent to Europe?

'you seem to be suggesting that UKIP will get the job done'

The job caan only get done in the UK, through Parliament or through a referendum here. All of the parties are in favour of the EU apart from UKIP. None of the parties can stop a single thing that the EU does such as reducing the wattage of our hoovers from Sept 2014 and again in Sept 2017. They are powerless because the Project is far bigger and more important than any of them. That is why the movement to stop it and return power to the peope must happen here in the UK and it won't happen with our PPE political class because they are all in it together.

'I just know that UKIP are a waste if time and opportunists and lazy.'

Is Jane Collins MEP, the parliamentray candidate for UKIP in Rotherham useless? Wait until she gets elected and watch how she shakes up a system that has failed over a thousand young girls and their families.

Don't believe that all UKIP people are a waste of time and useless, that is what the media want us to think.

UKIP will grow and change over time because it is based on local democracy and any useless people will be removed as local people grab the reins.

Rf

I did say that Westminster still has some power. Although it got written as gas dome power.

For someone who claims to have benefitted from a top class education your critical analysis is rather poor Rf.

When you start asking people why they don't just join the BNP then my engagement with you ceases as this is trolling and is completely uncalled for.

I have reported your post.

Report away, I don't consider it trolling to draw parallels between two far right parties which share what I consider to be a dangerously xenophobic and dishonest agenda.

It's precisely because of my education that I see through UKIP and what they supposedly stand for.

Devastating article by the independent-minded legendary Mail on Sunday commenator, Peter Hitchens, mentioning Tory voters such as Isitmebut

"The utter falsity of Mr Cameron’s recent play-acting about the EU is astounding. He is now reduced to issuing bombastic threats of future displeasure over a needless defeat which he himself sought, to try to fool his stupider voters into thinking he is something he is not. It is we who will ‘live to regret’ taking this man seriously.

It is simply not true, as almost every media outlet obediently parroted yesterday, that Britain is now one step closer to leaving the EU. We are as trapped in it as ever. Not one molecule of David Cameron is hostile to British membership of the EU. His godfather and first political mentor was Tim Rathbone, a sopping wet Tory MP eventually expelled from the party for supporting a pro-European breakaway.

Mr Cameron’s fellow Bullingdon Club hearty, Radek Sikorski, now foreign minister of Poland, and keen on all things EU, thinks of his old friend as an enthusiast for Brussels. Tapes of Mr Sikorski’s Warsaw table talk emerged last week.

Every word of it assumes Mr Cameron is really on the side of the EU: ‘He stupidly tries to play the system… his whole strategy of feeding them scraps in order to satisfy them is just as I predicted, turning against him; he should have said, “Bleep off!” tried to convince people and isolate [the sceptics]. But he ceded the field to those that are now embarrassing him.’"

hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/blair-anthony/

Whatever rf.

Let's see how this election plays out.

yesterday, DH had a text conversation with an old school mate, they hadn't been in contact in last 6 yrs.

Mate still lives in Clacton. He's an engineer working on wind turbines.

So I reckon that's another vote UKIP won't get.

It will be very interesting.

Cameron who recently allegedly was going round saying "cut the green crap" in what may have been an attempt by PR policy wonk PPEs to fool the Tory faithful that Cameron understood the folly of a rooftop wind turbine policy, will probably have to come out supporting wind turbines when Farage and co bring up the policy in order to embarrass the PPEs.

The old squiggly green tree Tory Party logo may even be mentioned by UKIP as the people of Essex laugh at the PPEs with their five-a-day holier than thou lecturing of the people.

Essex is their worst nightmare. It will spell the end of ther PR spin PPE project because they are no match for the people.

"RIP, The Cameron Project"

The Blair Project demonstrated that a leadership could just lead and ignore the base: those people who trudge around with leaflets from doorstep to doorstep in all weathers, who still BELIEVE. The leadership didn't need them, it could create a new base, a new group of voters at election time by cobbling together myriad people from hither and yon, lure them in with a bit of spin, a bit of jargon.

That a senior Labour Party official admitted to me years later: "We knew that Blair hated Labour. We made a Faustian pact", came as no surprise. It was obvious.

...

Cameron was setting the pace. He ripped out that Thatcher conviction-blue motif and replaced it with a squiggly, green, smudgy, abstracty, tree-thingy logo . It was Cameron who almost rose up and yelled "Bravo, maestro!" at the conclusion of Mr. Tony's resignation speech in the Commons. Who'd have thunk it, an 'Heir to Blair' would wind up leading the Conservative Party. Not Labour. But that was then. And this is now."

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/bonnie-greer/david-cameron-project_b_3028961.html

It's over. This is the beginning of the end.

Doomsday for Dave. Conservative Collapse in Clacton-on-Sea. Victory to the people and not the PPEs.

Farage is a P.P.E. isn't he?

Prat, Piss head, Ego maniac.....with no record of running a ONE Ukip candidate in Clacton successfully, never mind a country with huge economic, debt and social problems..

Claig ... by the way, did you see Mr Carswell's reasons for leaving the Conservatives and leader he had been praising in speeches recent?

Lame on the national and local front - the man has been 'bought' thinking his seat/salary is safe and being 'a big cog in a little Wheeler' rather than a back-bencher Conservative wanting to be a minister - but in a coalition, had to fight two parties for a place.

Farage needed some help to guarantee a seat in Westminster, so this is Ukip's rich backer Treasurer, throwing the dice and gambling he will get the seat - aided by strategic Labour voters, giving the Conservatives a bloody nose. IMO

Farage is most certainly not a PPE or he would lose my vote, unless you mean that he is Pratical, Pissistent and Egoless n his determination to leave the EU and to remove the modernisers from their Clacton seat.

One of Carswell's reasons was apparently over "recall" - Zac Goldsmith's thing.

It's not top of my list of priorities or top of the people of Clacton's - we think that getting rid of the modernisers and PPEs is more important - but different strokes for different folks. I won't criticise UKIP candidate Carswell for that!

I think the way UKIP kicked their original candidate for Clacton aside in favour of Carswell says a hell of a lot about their 'integrity'...

"Recall" - where if a perfectly competent MP (possibly Conservative), possibly with a very small vote majority, can be subject to being kicked out by Labour and Ukip supporters using social media etc - if they don't agree with his governments policy?

I wonder why Ukip, with few policies, with many supporters who don't care, desperate for an MP (any MP), might focus on that? Guffaw.

Where would that have left us 2010 to 2012, needing a stable government making tough decisions????

If an MP has done something wrong, there are parliamentary standards that if not tough enough, should be changed.

Isitme I've just read up on the proposed recall rules (which have been shelved anyway as far as I know?) and with minor amendment they seem perfectly sensible - if as an MP you do something that warrants a jail sentence, you should be kicked out. I do feel that the process should not start until after a criminal conviction has been secured, however - trial by social media is never acceptable.

Doesn't address the way UKIP treated Roger Lord though - that was blatant political opportunism and I hope it backfires on them badly.

pointythings .... if talking proven CRIMINAL, hang the sods, never mind recall 'em. I have not seen in detail, but I trust your judgement - a matter for General Election manifestos next parliament I guess, as arguably more important 'stuff' to have sorted out during this one.

Re Roger Lord, by any standard of company/party 'man management' it was a disgrace.

he seemed like a nice hard working individual, even if a bit posh Tim-nice-but- Dim, but had the bad luck to be running in the constituency Ukip managed to turn a Conservative, to the political 'Dark Side'.

Those Ukip candidates running in constituencies with 'suspect' Conservatives in Ukip Wheeler's Mayfair Lunch Club, must realize they are just a piece of 'meat' to their party's Westminster ambition.

the man has been 'bought' thinking his seat/salary is safe and being 'a big cog in a little Wheeler'

Is this what Central Office are tweeting?

You are being very unfair in suggesting that Carswell jumped ship for political ambition. He is one MP who has retained his independence and has never felt the need to go brown-tonguing in a quest for ministerial office.

Let's be fair. He jumped out of conviction not for private gain.

You're a vicious lot you Tories when you're crossed

I have to say that I do actually believe that he resigned out of conviction. From what I gather he is a very diligent and well respected local MP who would prob have retained his seat, particularly as he's very euro sceptic so that vote would be his.

Patterson next? He is quite good except for his backing of GM food.

This is starting to look like the Great Escape. Who will be the next one through the tunnel and over the wall to moderniser-free UKIP sanity?

"The former Conservative Cabinet Minister Owen Paterson, sacked from the role by David Cameron last month, has been 'treated to lunch' by a millionaire Ukip donor, it has been claimed."
...
"The Mirror quotes Mr Wheeler as saying he had asked eight anti-Brussels Conservatives about their views, adding: 'But I didn't say "will you defect?" I would say "would you like to meet Nigel Farage?".

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2738367/Sacked-Tory-Cabinet-Minister-Owen-Patterson-treated-lunch-millionaire-Ukip-donor.html

Asking a question like that is a no-brainer, it's like saying would you like to meet the Queen? They jump at the chance.

To save any future grief though, I do think it would be wise of Wheeler to get them to sign a document before the meal saying that they have renounced all modernising tendencies, they accept that they made a mistake, and they pledge henceforth not to act in a modernising way ever again in the future.

WetAugust …. Not Conservative Head Office at all, just someone who has (in a past life) worked around people like Stuart Wheeler for a very long time, and I know how they think.

The man has spent a lot of time/money on Ukip, his FTSE 250 company works out spreads/betting odds for a business for Christ’s sake – with Mr Carswell, he is ‘hedging’ his Ukip Westminster MP 'short position' exposure ahead of the May General Election.

Read Douglas Carswell’s own reasons for leaving, very different from recent speeches praising everything Conservative, including getting everything HE wanted with the 2017 EU Referendum.

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/douglascarswellmp/100284393/clacton-calling/

As far as I can see it was because;

• In a 2010 coalition forced on the Conservatives by Ukip, he does not understand a 2010 manifesto is negotiated/prioritized with the other party - and you cannot have ‘a sofa’ government with TWO political parties.

• The 2010 parliament had to address the nations financial situation overlayed with public sector inefficiencies and waste, and not being able to AFFORD that any more, many reforms had to be rushed through – in stark contrast to the first Labour administrations inheritance in 1997, when all they had to do was think of new taxes and sell our gold.

• He also does not want to be told the country NEEDS a million new homes, so is a 12,000 home nimby.

• MP recall is more important to him than most economic, financial and social issues, how deep in that 'make a difference' conviction.

Isitmebut can anyone see ONE solid reason he gave to JOIN Ukip and vote for him??????

'Not Conservative Head Office at all, just someone who has (in a past life) worked around people like Stuart Wheeler for a very long time, and I know how they think.'

Do they let butlers into what they are thinking?

'can anyone see ONE solid reason he gave to JOIN Ukip and vote for him??????'

"From Libya to NHS reform, things aren’t properly thought through. There’s no follow up. Downing Street ends up chasing headlines to look good, rather than getting things right.

After each General Election the clique in Number 10 might change, but the sofa stays the same. I think Britain can do better than this."

I think that spells it out. We need a new sofa and someone sitting on it who has coherent, thought-through policies that are not spin, smoke and mirrors.
We need Farage.

Claig ... what do you have against butlers or any other domestic staff in your 'party of the people', who else is excluded, unused Ukip candidates who might yet win?????

Why are you repeating Carswell's lame excuses to leave the Conservatives when I have just answered them in the box above?

Obviously the man wanted power within government and be noticed, he was getting neither in a coalition government (thanks to Ukip) that also watered down many Conservative policies, ESPECIALLY on Europe.

I repeat, WHY has he joined Ukip to leave the EU when Ukip can't do it, and ONLY HAVE "spin, smoke and mirrors" on ALL their domestic polices Farage will ditch once he has the votes???

On top of the financial security of retaining a well financed seat via Ukip he might have lost in May 2015, a 'big cog in a little wheel' is the ONLY thing that makes sense for a serious politician.

'I repeat, WHY has he joined Ukip to leave the EU when Ukip can't do it'

I'm not sure but I think this is what might have happened. He asked for a meeting wth Cameron to see what the plan was for reforming the EU etc. He was led to the "sofa that does not change" and a small clique of PPEs were sitting on it.

"A small clique of people sitting on the sofas in Downing Street try to make all the decisions."

They expalined what the plan was and he couldn't believe what he was hearing. It was as muddled aseverything else the modernisers had come up with and he had visions of UKIP making mincemeat of the Tories in Clacton.

"you can’t run a country that way, they end up rushing from one muddle to the next."

He asked the clique how he could sell this to the people of Clacton and they said tell them it is called "modernisation". He knew what the people of Clacton would say to that and therefore he immediately texted and leapt at the chance to "meet Nigel".

The rest is history.