Conservative Carswell defects to UKIP

[Isitmebut]

Modernizer Carwell won the new Clacton seat in 2010 with a large majority, heavily influenced by Ukip deciding not to stand a candidate themselves – so he has found a natural home with those that have a totally anti EU stance, but seems to forget that Ukip without a parliamentary majority cannot change British law to bring us out.

Claig …… after all your rants about right wing ‘modernizers’, you now own another one – so time for you to ‘jump’ the other way? lol

P.S. His defection was hardly cold, but by 1.30pm Wikipedia had been changed to reflect his defection. Who do you think was in a hurry to reflect his move, Ukip or the Conservatives? lol

Claig ... your on that hubbly bubbly pipe again ,,,"Ukip will hold the balance of power" HOW?????

Thanks to Ukip pro EU Labour (with or without the Lib Dems) WILL get back into power in 2015 due to the dodgy boundaries; for example, in 2005 a 35% share of the votes gave Labour a 64 -seat majority. In 2010 the Tories won 36% of votes but were 20 -seats short of a majority.

Labour will have a honking great majority, whether Ukip gets 7% of the popular vote or 12% plus - where is your power then???

'What I mean by a big 'fuck you' is people wanting to stick it to the main parties. This is a motivation of some UKIP voters. I disagree that most people protest voting would abstain, my opinion is that they would be the most likely to bother to vote!'

If that were the case, then they wouldn't keep voting. They would have made their point and they would give up. But UKIP's vote is growing because people have had enough and actively want change.

'Claig ... your on that hubbly bubbly pipe again ,,,"Ukip will hold the balance of power" HOW?????'

Because they will get ten or so seats and the Tories will have to do a deal with them and then UKIP will demand changes such as pro business policies, direct democracy, EU referendum, scrapping of rooftop wind turbines, grammar schools, cuts in taxation etc etc, and end to politically correct nanny state luvvies telling us how much we should drink and about our five a days etc, and a scrapping of the Saul Alinsky Marxist Big Society third sector charidee circuit where failed luvvies, politicians and croneys get six figure salaries for 3 day weeks out of the public purse.

Claig re your sad populist 'peoples democracy' that will give Ukip some 'power'.

Based on the voting/seat figures I gave above, thanks to Ukip on a ‘vote Garage 2015, get Miliband’, the Uk will then have a government denying ‘the people’ an EU vote, lacking in popular legitimacy.

How's them 'peoples democracy' apples sit with you, on Ukip's CORE EU out platform?

An element of direct democracy exists in a lot more EU member countries than it does in ours. The Swiss also have frequent referendums, and some States in the US also hold referendums. The problem is that you dont always get the answer you are looking for when you pose the question directly to the people.

I think that heridatry loyalty to a particlar poltical party is a thing of the past. The dissolution of the power of the Unions and the demise of manufacturing industry has cost Labour dearly. The Liberals always attracted the non-conformist vote that disliked the other main 2 parties. Their voters now have a alternative to voting for the Green party.

Isitmebut. I share your concern for the future of this country. Its a shame that Cameron doesnt share our fears. He alone has had the ability to take the Conservative party from a party that scraped to power via a rather unpalatable coalition with the Libs to a party that proved itself to the voters as a party they could trust to return to power in 2015. He failed to do that.

The problem is that Dave, in his divine right to lead, has no real feeling for the history of his party just as Ed Milliband has no real idea of the history of the Labour party (hence his recent whoopsy with The Sun). Dave should know that Europe is an issue that has divided the Tories for at least the last forty years. Its the issue that brought down Thatcher with her No, No, No, speech. Its the issue that wracked Majors time in power. The Tory party, as a whole, is more Eurosceptic than it was back in Thatcher or Majors time and now some of the key pro-EU Conservatives are out to grass i.e. Hesseltine, Clark, Britain etc. Meanwhile some of his eminent grandee such as Chancellor Lawson have publicly spoken out against the EUs continuing power grab. Cameron should have taken the opportunity to declare that the Tories are the anti-EU party and put some real political clear blue water between the Tories and the rest but he didnt because he was shackled by Claggy and he still had Ken Clark etc in prominent posts. But he had 5 years in which to turn the Tories into an anti-EU party. The worst that Claggy could have done is to flounce off but that would have been political suicide for the Libs. But Cameron didnt do that. He just sucked it all up another EU directive? When would you like that implemented? The Tories will never be electable while they remain with their heads stuck firmly in the sand over the big elephant in the room the EU. And I cannot wait to see the party tear itself apart if he finally does start to renegotiate with Brussels. For the average anti-EU Tory MP the disappoint will be immense as it will be like looking forward to a World Cruise and finding himself on a boating lake in Bognor (without a paddle!). And this will be the best thing that could ever happen as the MPs will finally be able to pursue the policies that they believe in instead of having their hands collectively bound by Brussels.

So today Dave has decided to take our minds off all this by raising the threat level. I used to see the threat level on a large board each day in my workplace. It just to go up and down as frequently as a fiddlers elbow. It certainly never warranted a full on Press Conference with Madame May etc. Pure scare-mongering. Keep the population scared and they will vote for the status quo. Its so predictable its pathetic. And sitting here listening to him saying I will do this and I will do that just makes me think Why the hell are you not doing all that already?

It doesn't matter if Miliband gets in because the public will then only grow even more disaffected as PPE luvvies implement looney policies in councils all over the land. Then UKIP will grow and the Tories will become irrelevant as they are practically the same as nanny state Labour. In 5 years' time, UKIP will be the opposotion to labour and UKIP will win. Then change can begin.

Rome wasn't built in a day. We won't fix all our problems in one day, but we are on the right way.

IF UKIP gets ten seats the Tories can deal with them all they like- it won't matter as labour will be in power...

You say that UKIP shocked everyone with a massive number of MEPs - I had mentioned this myself as the MEPs claimed as much as they could and barely voted/attended anything.

I think that it is problematic that the main parties - Tories particularly - have such a high proportion of public school Oxbridge types. But I would rather have them than a bunch of racists harking back to the past.

Nobody I know would vote UKIP and I think that this is the same amongst most people. UKIP have a strong base in some areas but not enough of one. People from ethnic minorities are unlikely to vote UKIP.

Claig

There is no way that UKIP is going to pick up 10 or more seats at the GE. You had better reign in your expectations now otherwise you will be sorely disappointed. I doubt they will get any.

But I also think that many people will find it impossible to vote for Milliband because he is just a joke. Just imagine the election campaign with Ed screwing up things on a daily basis. It will be hilarious!

Osama Bin Laden said

when people see a strong horse and a weak horse, by nature, they will like the strong horse.

Ed is a very weak horse.

'I doubt they will get any.'

They will win Rotherham. They will win South Thanet with Farage. They will win Clacton in Essex and they will win Thurrock in Essex. I know Essex and I say don't believe the metropolitan elite, Essex is UKIP country no matter what they say.

Rf

People from ethnic minorities are unlikely to vote UKIP.

Actually, one of UKIPs own MEP is Asian.

You see you really are stuck in the past because everyone else has moved on and even the media all agree that UKIP is not a racsit party. The attempts to smear them as a racist party failed.

You can call them xenophobic, which is also wrong but their detractors like to use big long words.

I have no fear of foreigners. Some of my family were foreigners living in foreign lands at one time. My objection is to the UK being subsumed into an undemocratic European super-state called Europe.

The Labour policies on the economy, finance, immigration, and housing was not about PPE's, it was all about a failed ideology of a fat State economy, with falling business/taxes to fund it - so as they do NOT appear to have learned their lesson, the UK is already spending £100 bil a year more than it earns and has £1,400,000,000,000 (£1.4tril) of national Debt.

That National Debt reduces once our spending/receipts balance, and it is paid off by economic growth or ever higher taxes, as in 1979 with taxes up to 90 odd %, that bore no resemblance to the lower ones in 1997 that passed to Labour the then fastest growing economy in Europe.

And as Labour is looking to State Control their fat State economy from 2015, the business/jobs recovery will trend down, as will the tax receipts - leaving higher taxes for everyone to pay off a debt CURRENTLY costing us £52 billion a year in INTEREST, alone.

Claig .. if Ukip and Labour they'll let back in don't KNOW the problems, they can hardly start addressing them.

By 2020, we still be in the EU and broke, as we STILL have a larger overspend in cash terms, than any of the others - so this isn't play time, it's serious.

WetAugust the number of seriously dodgy statements made my UKIP candidates makes me think they are xenophobic and racist. And jingoistic.

I'm not stuck in the past- I think UKIP is! Harking back to world that doesn't exist

'I had mentioned this myself as the MEPs claimed as much as they could and barely voted/attended anything.'

rf24, no one cares what they did. The BBC cares but the people don't care, they simply wanted to send a message that they are not in favour of the EU.

'But I would rather have them than a bunch of racists harking back to the past.'

That is how the Bullingdon Club and the metropolitan media portray UKIP in a desperate attempt to stop people voting for them. Is Roger Lord a racist? Is Carswell a racist? Is Louise Bours a racist? Is Diane James a racist? Of course they aren't, but they have all got the metropolitan elite rattled because they know their game is up because the public is fed up.

'Nobody I know would vote UKIP and I think that this is the same amongst most people. UKIP have a strong base in some areas but not enough of one. People from ethnic minorities are unlikely to vote UKIP.'

You say you are an Oxbridge PPE luvvie Labour supporter, are you also from Islington? Believe me when I say that UKIP will win Clacton hands down. Essex is not Westminster, it is not Islington, there are no luvvies here. It is Cameron's worst nightmare - his five-a-day highfiving jive won't go down here. Essex was Thatcher territory. I don't think there is a single Labour MP in Essex at all. We don't like them because we have aspiration and are independent and don't want our taxes wasted in highfiving quangoes that don't dredge rivers while taking 6 figure salaries. We are the bellwether county that decides elections.

'so this isn't play time, it's serious.'

Absolutely. That is why Carswell said enough of playing games, I'm leaving the Tory jokers and joing UKIP and the people are going wild in Clacton as we speak.

Which is another reason why the UK should not be giving 50 million POUNDS a DAY to the EU.

Actually a lot of the Asian community are pretty pissed off that the Tories have clamped down hard on non-EU immigration in an attempt to get the overall immigration figures down to this 100 000 a year as Cameron can do nothing about the unlimited EU immigration that the EU forces this country to accept.

So you will find that there is a lot of Asian dismay at their inability to bring some family members to this country under this crackdown. I was told this by an Asian person.

Seems that Cameron would rather have limitless unemployed EU immigrants than allow those with skills we need toemigrate to the UK from non-EU countries.

Barking is not just a place in Essex!

WetAugust ... sorry I can't read that no paragraph mass of 'gloop' with question marks, all about 'little picture' stuff not rescuing an economy - and the ultra pro EU Lib Dems, that thanks to Ukip's need for Westminster seats, whilst getting nice MEP salaries in the meantime, is why there IS a Conservative coalition with Mr Clegg.

If not for the Lib Dems NOT being tribal, this country would be in a right mess now, as relying on the 'oppose everything' Labour Party to put long term plans together via parliament, would have been a joke - as they were apparently right, laughing at PMQT for over 2-years, as their plan (similar to France), racking up MORE annual debt and putting taxes up to everyone AFTER the election, was THE way forward.

Well lucky old me I get a vote in the by election!

And if any UKIPers try door stepping me, I'll be having them done for trespass.

Clacton is a hugely deprived area. It stands to reason that by pointing at others (EU, immigrants) and saying THATS why you're having such a shit time come vote for us we'll fix it, might work. I think UKIP will get in here. And I think it will say a lot about the desperation of people in deprived areas.

Isitmebut

You seem intent on just being disagreeable. I cannot stop the question marks. It is legible however. It have used paragraphs.

There's no point in debating with people who fabricate things.

Wet August ... why bitch about the EU and then refuse to accept a Conservative Referendum, thus ENSURING we stay in and have to accept the key EU policies – which IS the free movement of labour?

FYI from the early 2000’s figures show TWICE as many non EU citizens being signed into the UK each year than EU citizens with automatic rights – which of course had nothing to do with the fact that NON EU citizens COULD vote in a General Election and tended to vote ‘socialist’ – would you like the official figures???

*Cameron had to clamp down on NON EU citizens, as for 13-years no plans were made to HOUSE them or find jobs for the rest of the indigenous population, including ethic groups.

Re so many EU citizens coming here NOW, mainly from the major EU countries/economies, is the Eurozone economy is stuffed, has no growth and over 10% average unemployment, while here, unemployment is just over 6% all the - and Osborns reforms is creating growth and jobs the others are dreaming about.

The UK net immigration figures from the EU is due to our SUCCESS, not following the rest on a fixed currency rate for all.

P.S. You are not debating, you are making statements that are your biased opinion too numerous to discuss, especially when not seeing the bigger picture that matters to the rest of the country.

I was joking only referring to myself asa luvvie. I went to a comp school then oxford. And I live in Hampstead not islington- but I guess that's equally luvvie

People don't care that UKIP went to Europe and did sweetFA?! Well that's rather bewildering as I thought the whole point is that they will do so much?!

Claig I want whatever you're smoking

Rf

MEPs are totally ineffective so if UKIP MEPs chose not to attend thats fine by me. The Parliament in which they sit cannot initiate legislation and cannot remove law. It can only MAKE SUGGESTIONS to proposals that are put before them by the unelected EU elite. You know, the Kinnocks and Patons and such like.

So the EU Parliament is a toothless rubber stamp and if UKIP chose not to particpate in this farce thats fine by me.

'People don't care that UKIP went to Europe and did sweetFA?! Well that's rather bewildering as I thought the whole point is that they will do so much?'

I don't think that anyone on the doorstep in Clacton will ask any UKIP canvasser what UKIP MEPs do there for their allowance? No one cares apart from the occasional Labour voter who has been briefed to ask the question by a luvvie with a PPE and a position in a Labour thinktank or charidee.

I'm only joking.

Well people are of course entitled to vote for representatives who ate useless once elected - I'm just expressing my surprise since you seem to be suggesting that UKIP will get the job done.

This is all crazy. It's a fringe party.

I haven't been briefed by any luvvies. I just know that UKIP are a waste if time and opportunists and lazy. They may get a few MPs, who knows. But their ineffectual representation will ensure that those MPs are not re elected.