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Conservative Carswell defects to UKIP

999 replies

Isitmebut · 28/08/2014 13:46

Modernizer Carwell won the new Clacton seat in 2010 with a large majority, heavily influenced by Ukip deciding not to stand a candidate themselves – so he has found a natural home with those that have a totally anti EU stance, but seems to forget that Ukip without a parliamentary majority cannot change British law to bring us out.

Claig …… after all your rants about right wing ‘modernizers’, you now own another one – so time for you to ‘jump’ the other way? lol

P.S. His defection was hardly cold, but by 1.30pm Wikipedia had been changed to reflect his defection. Who do you think was in a hurry to reflect his move, Ukip or the Conservatives? lol

OP posts:
claig · 02/09/2014 18:17

'They don't seem to have considered that the person my recently have moved to Clacton since an election in which they voted UKIP elsewhere'

Very good point

WetAugust · 02/09/2014 18:41

Just shows that a good proportion of the inhabitants of Clacton are racist swivel eyed xenophobic fruit cakes. LOL

Do you think they've always been like that our just since their MP defected to UKIP?

claig · 02/09/2014 19:04

More interesting info from Carswell

'Rebel MP Douglas Carswell has claimed it does not matter if his defection to UKIP helps Ed Miliband into Downing Street – because there is no difference between Labour and the Tories.'

...

'But Mr Carswell said he was not concerned that his defection would damage the Tories.

He said: ‘I don’t fundamentally believe that on most of the macro issues, an Ed Miliband government would be that different from a Cameron government. Different cliques, same sofa.’

...

Mr Carswell said he would not have left the Tories if he thought the party leadership was serious about change. He said the Tory Party had become the ‘ property of a small clique ’.

He said he visited a conference in March, attended by senior Government officials, who were dismissive of serious reform of the EU.

Mr Carswell said: ‘I thought the Government was serious about change. And I sat in rooms listening to some very senior people, who unlike me are not democratically accountable, who clearly decide things , and who were just contemptuously dismissive.

‘And when I raised very mild suggestions and put some questions, or even when I was just listening, they were smirkingly, eyeball-rollingly contemptuous of even the most modest treaty reforms.

‘There was almost a sense of ‘ we know best ’. And yes we’ve got to say these things to the voters because of course you know the Prime Minister has got to win the next election, because you know, rest assured, we don’t mean it and it’s not going to happen .

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2740691/I-don-t-believe-Miliband-government-different-Cameron-s-Douglas-Carswell-says-does-not-care-helps-Labour-power-defecting-UKIP.html

rf241 · 02/09/2014 19:06

Carswell is an excellent local MP by all accounts. I expect him to take the seat and then keep it in the general election. He's a dream come true for UKIP. Unfortunately the other candidates are not well known and some are rather unsavoury to say the least. I doubt UKIP will do very well seats wise, even though it's clear they will get a good shareof the vote. They may as well join forces with the LibDems to get rid of FPTP Wink

claig · 02/09/2014 19:11

Yes, we need to get rid of FPTP, so that the electorate's vote is made to count. People who vote Green, UKIP, LibDem or for any other party should have votes that count. Then this " small clique " who " clearly decide things " will lose influence and the people's voice will be heard.

claig · 02/09/2014 19:19

One if the questions in the poll in Clacton was:

"How would you vote if Boris Johnson stands as Tory?"

and the answers were

UKIP 60%
Con 27%
Lab 10%
Lib Dem 1%

That shows that the voters are voting mainly on policies (because they like UKIP) and not on personality (because Boris is the biggest personality the Tories have got).

WetAugust · 02/09/2014 19:27

they must think the electorate is incredibly thick if they think that they would swing it in Clacton by getting Boris to stand. Thus us not a 5 year long episode of Have I Got News For You
They must be equally thick to think that Boris would ever have agreed to stand in Clacton. Boris will slip into a nice safe Tory seat that he will occupy for several decades to come

dawndonnaagain · 02/09/2014 19:35

Don't bother being kind wet dear, there are people on here pissing themselves having read your comment. My father was in Parliament in the sixties, both Grandfathers in the Lords. I strongly suspect I know a tad more than you dear, but you're so obviously delusional it's really not worth the effort.
However, when you do manage to get to the point of being capable of putting across a cohesive and coherent argument, please don't hesitate to get in touch.

rf241 · 02/09/2014 19:53

Dawndonnaagain - you have just opened yourself up to a serious roasting!!! Grandfathers in the Lords?! My my you are bad as me with my PPE luvvie evil despicable ways.

rf241 · 02/09/2014 20:01

OK! So I am finally on my laptop and not phone, so can post this article. It says it all really. And before anybody claims it is all elitist/luvvie/PPE/ivory towers spin, PLEASE visit the link and actually click on the relevant parts which link to articles about all mentioned incidents/comments. This is UKIP IN THEIR OWN WORDS. Pretty nasty, pretty racist, pretty damn dumb. I have no doubt that some of the supporters (if not most) are genuinely concerned with EU/Immigration and many other issues, but this group of losers and jokers are why nobody should seriously consider voting UKIP. Read at your own risk......And yes the magazine is very Labour, but you can't spin this shit. It is simply a collection of what UKIP is and what is says. There.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence

The danger with extremism is that, when filtered through eyes and minds of reasonable people, it appears ridiculous. The reasonable assumption is that others will view it through the same filter and find it equally ridiculous. But, while The Reasonable laugh, support for extremist views creeps up. Because what The Reasonable failed to notice is that fear and insecurity have a way of robbing others of reason.

Ukip’s manifesto is a collection of promises selected, seemingly, on the basis of “twenty things that really annoy people”, with no inkling of implementation method or any costings; a wish list for The Annoyed.

Scared of immigrants? Vote Ukip.

Insecure about the financial crisis? Vote Ukip.

Hate the smoking ban, HS2, Brussels, travellers, burqas, regulation, tax, Boris, debt, wind farms, quangos, foreign aid, crime, Abu Qatada, tuition fees, lazy people, Muslims, foreigners, the hunting ban? Vote Ukip.

The real danger of Ukip becoming a serious contender for coalition partnership in 2015 is gleefully ignored by the centre-left (because, after all, they are damaging the Tories) and dealt with by the centre-right by shifting closer to their extremes; by copying their policies and rhetoric. Everything from the EU referendum and citizenship tests (pdf) to Theresa May’s – and I’m not making this up – imbecilic tales of cat loving, illegal immigrants.

In other words, not only is nobody challenging their vitriol, but they are being allowed to set the political agenda.

Meanwhile their oleaginous leader, whom the British media have taken to calling “charismatic”, is invited to appear on every news programme. This is, apparently, in order to provide balance on European matters – which is like inviting a creationist to give their view every time a story breaks about dinosaur fossils.

This man, who claims he stands alone in wanting to fight for Britain’s interests in the Evil EU, and who bemoans the amount of taxpayers' money going to the aforementioned Evil EU, boasts about having claimed up to £2m in expenses out of said taxpayers' money and presides over a party three of whose representatives have the worst attendance record of any British MEPs (who together already have the lowest attendance record of any national delegation). Presumably they are all fighting for Britain’s interests remotely from a BBC studio, somewhere.

Most important of all, we are asked to believe – and this is essential in making Ukip palatable to The Annoyed – that Ukip is not a party of bigots. That, it may walk like a duck and quack like a duck and be affiliated to other ducks all over Europe, but it is, in fact, a platypus. “I'd rather have a party of eccentrics than bland, ghastly people”, says Nigel Farage. Let us examine those eccentrics.

Links with European far-right parties
Ukip is part of the group Europe of Freedom and Democracy (EFD). The group includes representatives of the Danish People’s Party, the True Finns Party, the Dutch SGP and the infamous Italian Lega Nord – all of them far-right. Nigel Farage is co-President of the group along with Lega Nord’s Francesco Speroni, who described multiple murderer Anders Breivik as someone whose “ideas are in defence of western civilisation."

Mario Borghezio, another member of the group, declared in a radio interview that Breivik had some "excellent" ideas. Farage’s reaction was to write a strongly-worded letter to Borghezio, asking him to withdraw his comments or Ukip would pull out of the EFD. Borghezio not only did not apologise, but responded with an extraordinary speech in which he raged: "Long live the Whites of Europe, long live our identity, our ethnicity, our race… our blue sky, like the eyes of our women. Blue, in a people who want to stay white."

Nigel Farage did not withdraw from the EFD. He continues to co-preside over it, along with the leader of the Lega Nord. MEP Nikki Sinclaire, however, was expelled from Ukip for refusing to take part in the EFD because of their “extreme views”.

Links with domestic far-right parties
“Ukip has no links to the BNP,” explained Farage in 2007. The first line of any description of Ukip calls it “a libertarian, non-racist party”. What party, other than one skating close to the lines of taste and decency, needs to describe itself as “non-racist”? Farage boasted on The Andrew Marr Show (20 January 2013) that “Ukip is the only UK party to explicitly ban BNP members from joining”. What party, other than a party whose policies are attractive to such organisations, would need to do that?

Christopher Monckton, their Scotland Leader and Head of Policy Unit invited the now-defunct British Freedom Party – an amalgamation of mostly breakaway BNP members led by a former Ukip candidate until January 2013 – to join Ukip: “I would very much like them to come back and join us and we stand together.” Ukip’s excuse for this lapse? Monckton had been away on a tour of the US and was not up to speed with current policy. More recently, however, Farage refused to vote to oppose moves for the European Union to fund the BNP.

The founder of the party, Alan Sked, says it has become "extraordinarily right-wing" and is now devoted to "creating a fuss, via Islam and immigrants”.

Xenophobia
“Our traditional values have been undermined. Children are taught to be ashamed of our past. Multiculturalism has split our society. Political correctness is stifling free speech”, states the Ukip manifesto. Their “Pocket Guide to Immigration” promises to “end support for multiculturalism and promote one, common British culture”. After attracting some negative publicity, it has disappeared from here, but an archived version can be seen here (pdf).

One of their prospective MP candidates recently wrote: "A removal of multi-culturalism and assimilation of these people needs to be done to save them from the abyss of exclusion and welfare. Above all, one should not shy away of contemplating forced repatriation, or threatening it to further assimilation, as a result of their lack of economic contribution to the UK." In fact their position on “forced repatriation” and “assimilation” is indistinguishable from the BNP’s. Except, perhaps, that Ukip’s 2005 manifesto advocates that all incoming immigrants should be “subject to health checks” for “communicable diseases”.

More recently, during BBC’s Question Time, Farage caused upset with some gross generalisations he made about Bulgarian people. He sent his trusted lieutenant and deputy chairman of the party Paul Nuttall to Bulgaria to defuse the situation. Nuttall explained that he had nothing to apologise for, since he never bashed Bulgarians, but was just noting facts. He stressed that “Brits fear all immigrants, regardless of where they would come from.”

Islamophobia
“On the question of Islamification,” said Farage during a well-received speech, “we have to do a bit more to teach our children of the values of our Judeo-Christian society.” He proceeded to note that at least 20 police forces are turning a blind eye to the operation of Sharia Law and expressed admiration for countries which say: “You’re welcome to come here and to have your children here… but if you’re coming here to take us over, you’re not welcome.”

A recent manifesto commitment to "tackle extremist Islam by banning the burqa or veiled niqab in public buildings and certain private buildings" was further explained by Farage: "I can't go into a bank with a motorcycle helmet on. I can't wear a balaclava going round the District and Circle line.”

Finally, Ukip peer Lord Pearson put it unequivocally. "The Muslims are breeding ten times faster than us," he said. "I don't know at what point they reach such a number we are no longer able to resist the rest of their demands."

Misogyny
Ukip’s only female MEP (after the expulsion of Nikki Sinclaire) Marta Andreasen, recently threatened to leave the party, labelling Farage as an “anti-women Stalinist dictator” whose view is that “women should be in the kitchen or in the bedroom”.

This came as no surprise. His grasp of sexual politics has always been tenuous at best. As he explained in a Telegraph interview: “Lap dancing? Don’t have the time these days, but I used to go to them. Like it or not, they are a fact of life. You are talking about normal behaviour there. Everyone does it.” Then, asked about extra-marital affairs, he conceded: “Well, we’re all human. There is a big difference between that sort of thing and being really bad.”

When Godfrey Bloom MEP, infamous for making a speech in the European Parliament – one of his better ones – while heavily intoxicated, said that “no employer with a brain in the right place would employ a young, single, free woman”, Farage’s reaction was “Dear old Godders! Godfrey's comment [as above] has been proved so right.”

Views on the less able
In 2007, Jack Biggs alleged that he had been banned from running as a candidate because of his disability and presented significant evidence in support. Later, high-ranking member Alexandra Swann sided with a Ukip councillor who said it was dangerous to allow those who do not work to vote. Political Scrapbook reported her as saying that “allowing people to vote on how other people’s money is spent — if they don’t contribute — is dangerous”. This, presumably, would include those unable to contribute because of disability.

Finally, the apotheosis (and demise of Godwin’s law, forever hence) came when a UKIP candidate aired his repugnant views about compulsory abortion of all disabled babies.

Homophobia
Ousted MEP Nikki Sinclaire, who came out as a lesbian, won a sexual discrimination case against UKIP after refusing to sit with its homophobic allies in the European parliament.

On a private members’ forum, senior UKIP member and former parliamentary candidate Dr Julia Gasper claimed some homosexuals prefer sex with animals. The Mirror reported her as saying: “As for the links between homosexuality and paedophilia, there is so much evidence that even a full-length book could hardly do justice to the ­subject.” (Ironically, UKIP General Secretary Jonathan Arnott had banned a discussion on the site on gay issues, because he feared that someone “is going to screenshoot comments and send them to a newspaper”.) She was sacked.

More recently a UKIP Croydon North candidate tweeted: "A caring loving home is a heterosexual or single family. I don't believe (a gay couple) is healthy for a child." He did so, after retweeting an article written by a National Front supporter who claimed there was "no such thing as homophobia". He was sacked.

However, Olly Neville, the former UKIP Youth Chairman, was also sacked for supporting same-sex marriage. Sack them all, as long as we don’t have to talk about it, seems to be the policy.

*

These are the facts and they speak for themselves. This is a barrel in which you would be lucky to find one good apple, misplaced among the rotten ones. Like former UKIP activist Kim Gandy, who worked in care, but joked on Facebook that elderly people should be euthanised when they become a burden (she told the NS the comments were written after a bad day, and have been taken out of context), or Maggie Chapman, who cracks jokes about Muslims having sex with camels and “paki” families going home and spreads Christmas cheer with her “eggnog for nig-nogs”. Farage can distance himself from all of them; sack all of them; disinherit all of them. The inescapable truth is that it is his policies which attract them and will keep doing so; they remain his “eccentrics”.

Paul Nuttall once wrote: “We in Ukip know: if you champion British interest and culture then you are labelled a nationalist with all the connotations that goes [sic] with it.” I would remind Nuttall of the distinction drawn by Charles De Gaulle: “Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.” I look at the policies, the rhetoric and the candidates, and I see nothing about love of one’s own people. I see only hate for others.

Instead, if you find yourself nodding in agreement with a couple of items on Ukip’s long list of empty promises, remember all the other things you will also be signing up for. They represent a particularly insidious brand of extremist; Bigotry Light, if you will – all the hatred of normal bigotry, but none of the calories.

And rejoin The Reasonable, so we may continue to be the majority and laugh at things. Like this election leaflet.

rf241 · 02/09/2014 20:05

Links with the EFD so so wrong. I'm jewish. It makes me sick. UKIP are in bed with bonafide fascists. And oh yeah, they tried to get British Freedom Party (all ex BNP ) to join UKIP. What does that tell me? That UKIP thought they would be a good fit and have some common values and aspirations.

claig · 02/09/2014 20:07

'Ukip’s manifesto is a collection of promises selected'

But this was the manifesto drawn up by a former Conservative who is now a Conservative again, and Farage rightly described the manifesto as 'drivel'. It's been scrapped to the rejoicing of the people of Clacton who are eagerly awaiting the real one.

rf241 · 02/09/2014 20:09

Skinflight - I couldn't be bothered to reply earlier as I thought I should go calm down BUT your analysis of history is weak. Linking Rotherham and the elite ideology to Natiomsl socialism and the holocaust just plain wrong. Of course the holocaust wouldn't have happened without the NAZIs, but there were a lot of other endemic factors within Europe and within Germany (reparations issue etc) wgich made it possible. Of course without a party who eventually decided to exterminate Jews this could not have happened, but your analysis is basic. My husband lost his entire family (apart from mother) in the Holocaust, before you accuse me of liking the gas chambers, as you have accused me of being in cahoots with paedophiles.

dawndonnaagain · 02/09/2014 20:09

oleaginous I do love this word and in this case, so apt.

Well said, all round, rf

rf241 · 02/09/2014 20:10

Claig love - do you want to deal with all the nasty bits or just point?

rf241 · 02/09/2014 20:14

Just THAT POINT I meant!

claig · 02/09/2014 20:18

But the Tories are now in an alliance with the True Finns in the EU Parliament. That dosn't mean they agree with them on every issue, just as UKIP didn't.

That article is just a hatchet job with quotes from disgruntled former UKIP members written up because UKIP ended up coming first in the EU elections backed by millions of voters. UKIP was just a hair's breadth away from beating Labour in Wales. That shows UKIP's popularity among the people and the panic among Labour's PPE class of parachuted-in stooges who pretend they represent the working class.

dawndonnaagain · 02/09/2014 20:21

RF I have pmd you.
Other than that Claig won't deal. S/he is unable to do so. What you get is the same stuff trotted out time and again, none of it is logical, in fact it's usually full of logical fallacies, most of it is nonsensical and all of it is from a zealots point of view.

claig · 02/09/2014 20:22

Choose one point and I can answer it, but it would take me a long time to answer every single gripe and smear contained in that New Statesman oleaginous hatchet job on the party of the people that has the stooges panicking from Oxbridge to Brussels to Primrose Hill and Islington.

rf241 · 02/09/2014 20:24

Forced repatriation? Skinflight HERE is the link with National Socialism that you were scrabbling around flr..,,the NAZIS also wanted to get rid of 'undesirables'

dawndonnaagain · 02/09/2014 20:24

claig
UKIP got 355,989 more votes than Labour. In the great big scheme of the protest vote, it's bugger all.

dawndonnaagain · 02/09/2014 20:25

party of the people that has the stooges panicking from Oxbridge to Brussels to Primrose Hill and Islington.
Rhetoric. Not an argument.

rf241 · 02/09/2014 20:25

Godfrey Bloom? Another winner! We on mumsnet should all know our ace and stay out of the workplace

rf241 · 02/09/2014 20:26

Fallen on hard times and need tax credis/JSA?? You shouldn't be allowed to vote you scrounging XXXXX

rf241 · 02/09/2014 20:26

Pregnant with a baby with Downs? That bsby should be aborted ASAP