Conservative Carswell defects to UKIP

[Isitmebut]

Modernizer Carwell won the new Clacton seat in 2010 with a large majority, heavily influenced by Ukip deciding not to stand a candidate themselves – so he has found a natural home with those that have a totally anti EU stance, but seems to forget that Ukip without a parliamentary majority cannot change British law to bring us out.

Claig …… after all your rants about right wing ‘modernizers’, you now own another one – so time for you to ‘jump’ the other way? lol

P.S. His defection was hardly cold, but by 1.30pm Wikipedia had been changed to reflect his defection. Who do you think was in a hurry to reflect his move, Ukip or the Conservatives? lol

Abbie ..... The fact is, in 2015 only Labour or the Conservatives will form the next administration and as Labour only needs a 31% popular vote to form the next government (possibly with even more pro EU Lib Dems) - a Ukip vote ENSURES the party that crashed the economy and had no idea how to fix it gets back in - SO EVERYWHERE WILL THEN LOOK LIKE MARGATE.

Claig ... You do talk hypocritical rubbish.

Re the bedroom tax, can you see (thanks to the BBC) in your last manifesto how to try and find (spare) bedrooms for 1.7 million families (5 million people) in a bust economy??

Or what were Ukip going to do 'protecting public industries???

Ukip after over 20-years as a political party, does not have any UK domestic policies on the economy, social issues, housing etc that they STAND BY, as they ‘flip flop’ polices/manifestos almost yearly, depending on which political party’s votes they are after.
news.sky.com/story/1200525/nigel-farage-disowns-ukip-manifesto-as-drivel

Ukips 2010 General Election manifesto was wholly wiped off their website, but below is the BBCs summary – including Grammar Schools Mr Wheeler insists on AND taking the Public Sector staff levels back to 1997, thereby firing 1 million public sector employees and similar from local authorities.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8617187.stm

Re the EU, Ukip cannot bring us out, only the Conservatives can, and Ukip guarantees they won'y have a parliamentary majority to do it.

P.S. The definition of political "spin" it pretend to voters for 20-years Ukip can bring the Uk out of the EU, flake on Uk domestic policies between general elections and pretend Ukip can win parliamentary seats, when you have to knife good Ukip candiates of 4-election experience - and then recruit Conservative MP's with strong local support.

"How do you identify the police officers and social workers who are going to help you put a stop to it? If you discipline the ones who have failed, do you then incur the hostility of their peers, and so fail to get the cooperation you need?"

This isn't a procedural issue, with the possible exception of the harrowing of the North almost 1000 years ago we have somehow managed to get by without allowing an entire generation of children to be raped at will in our mid sized towns....

I do not for one moment believe it is a difficult thing to stop, quite the opposite in fact. It must have taken immense political will, power and determination from the labour administration not only to abet it but to keep it quiet too.

'Claig ... You do talk hypocritical rubbish.
'Or what were Ukip going to do 'protecting public industries???'

An apology will be accepted if it is made in good faith!

"Ukip leader Nigel Farage said it was another example of Brussels meddling.

He said:"We are bound by EU rules which forced us to sell off the profitable parts of Royal Mail and now stops us keeping it in British ownership.

"These rules should be made by MPs in Westminster alone, not bureaucrats in Brussels."

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/428884/EXCLUSIVE-Royal-Mail-WILL-be-allowed-to-fall-into-foreign-hands-Government-confirms

claig ..... Is that the SAME 'profitable' Royal Mail that had a £10-11 billion worker pension fund deficit before Osbourn bailed it out, that if RM had 'got around' to protesting it's workers pensions, it would have gone parcels up as a viable business - no doubt having jacked up prices to the public first????

I get it, Mr Farage without any decent policies to talk about NEEDS such oxygen, but this was the Mr Farage who in that 2010 Ukip manifesto proposed 3 new railway lines 'up t'north' - yet when realised there were more votes OPPOSING one HS2 railway along a similar routes, rubbished his own manifesto and campaigned AGAINST new rails being laid.

We get it, the EU looks a bureaucratic mess, so lets organise a 2017 Referendum, have a two-year ongoing debate beforehand to get all the pros/cons FACTS - and give 'the people' a voice.

Ed Miliband has been busily tweeting about the forthcoming by election in Clacton.

He has yet to mention anything about Rotherham.

Nick Lowles, the director of HopeNotHate on the other hand has been blogging too. He shows exactly the same mindset as certain PPEs I have mentioned on here..

""We found this out, to our cost, in Bradford and Keighley in 2004, when there was a consensus to dismiss BNP claims of grooming in Keighley as racist propaganda. The BNP won four council seats and just missed out in several more.
Grooming was occurring in Keighley and everyone there knew it. In fact, nine Muslim men were sent to prison and as many as 65 young girls were believed to have been abused.""

Our cost.... I think the 65 young girls bore the brunt of the cost personally. If everyone knew about it then the only possible reason to dismiss it is because there are more important things to worry about.

More important than the rape of 65 girls.

I must say there are some impressive people amongst the political class, whether that be establishment politicians, charity bosses, trade union leaders or media luvvies. So impressive indeed that they should be locked away and studied.

Our cost.... I think the 65 young girls bore the brunt of the cost personally. If everyone knew about it then the only possible reason to dismiss it is because there are more important things to worry about.

I agree with that. It's been the consensus on the FWR threads too.

People said after 18-years of Conservative 1979 to 1997 they had got ‘stale’, people had had their taxes cut and MPs were fighting amongst themselves on Europe (funny old world) -so Blair came in with I think a 147 seat majority that came down to 60 odd seats by 2010, to do EXACTLY what they wanted to do with no threat so their majority.

As I alluded to on the opening Rotherham thread, this seems like a lot of CYA Labour Party back scratching, where government, mostly their local authorities, public sector service and other apparatchiks had not only got stale, but complaisant bordering on the criminally liable - and turned away from major problems and those they represent.

This is ongoing, Miliband daren’t say much. IMO

Stale.....

Political correctness really took off in a ridiculous way once Blair entered office. It became the standard weapon for stifling any discussion. Hence the long silent decades when anyone even using the word immigrant was immediately accused of racism. The ability to discuss immigration has only started to be possible this year. Even now you have the ridiculous situation where a local councillor is not allowed to speak out about issues over which they have concerns due to some misplaced idea of vested interest even though that councillor may have been elected exactly because he shared those concerns.

our public services are simply not fit for purpose anymore

Perhaps thus is deliberate so we don't mind handing the whole lot over yo Europe because what scraping the first place won't be missed?

Read Rotten Boroughs in Private Eye.

Anywhere in the country where one party has been in control of local government for a very long time (no matter which party it is) you tend to get problems, up to and including corruption. There were serious corruption convictions in Bradford many years ago (Labour), more recently in East Lynsey (Tory), and now we have Rotherham. Labour were thrown out of Hull in favour of the Lib Dems after decades in power. They took power and control for granted, there was nepotism, complacency and any number of cosy long-term relationships that, while short of being corrupt in the strict sense, were more about the convenience of the people in them than the public interest.

The reason UKIP and other small parties may do well in the next general election is that quite a lot of people seem to be starting to feel that shaking up the established order is now more important than anything else. The actual policies and abilities of the new people voted in matters less to many, I suspect, than the fact that they are new, and untainted by what has gone before. Don't forget the expenses scandal is still casting a long shadow.

UKIP, Respect, independents, Greens may all make gains.

AbbieHoffmansAfro ..... in 2015, there is NO DOUBT that either Labour or the Conservatives will form the next government

Cameron’s "establishment" record from 2010, dissed by Ukip SPEAKS FOR ITSELF having inherited a BROKEN ..... economy, banking system, businesses not hiring, Council Taxe s up over 110%, out of control immigration esprcially in NON EU citizens that COULD be controlled, too few home builds, a net loss of social housing, 5 million NEEDING social housing, education with 1 million unemployed UK 16-24 year olds who could NOT compete for UK jobs, unreformed benefit system, £38 bil over budgeted under equipped armed forces, germ infested hospitals, police a law to themselves, derisory state pension rises etc etc etc ; with a £157 billion a year Labour overspend to fix it all with?????

Yet the Ukip that aspires to replace them, in 2010 produced a manifesto called by Farage later as "drivel" and erased it from their own website.

So where are Ukips ideas to directly allocate an annual £100 billion (down from £157 billion) UK OVERSPEND - and come up with ideas to solve a £1,400,000,000,000 National Debt growing by that overspend each year – as until Ukip do, I suggest they leave it to the Conservative professionals who you now need to poach, who fixed the IMF bailed out UK from 1979, handed over the fastest growing economy in Europe in 1997, only to get back another basket case in 2010.

www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

As political wannabes who eject their own manifesto ideas before its first birthday, and whose vote ENSURES a pro EU Labour Party gets back to do MORE damage for potentially more than another 5-years, Ukip are doing this debt crisis country, us, our children, and their children NO FAVOURS AT ALL.

P.S. Didn’t Gordon Brown say of those very same Conservatives something like “this is no time for novices?”

Well we know Ukip must really think Conservative MP’s are good, but you’ve only got one, maybe two, even three – there is a whole ‘kin party of the buggers elsewhere fixing the broken 2010 UK, and you can call them “establishment”, but until Ukip can keep five policies they stand on from one elction to the other, come on, what is the point of a Ukip that cannot bring us outof the EU?

Especially if 'anti establishment', someone can vote Greens, as you 100% know what they ALL stand for from one election to the next.

in 2015, there is NO DOUBT that either Labour or the Conservatives will form the next government

Oh, I agree, OP, I am not suggesting any of the new or minority parties has any chance of forming the next government. Clearly they don't, and a party like, say, the Greens or Plain Cymru won't even campaign on the suggestion that they might. They will campaign on the basis of 'Let us be a thorn in the side of the big parties, we might make a difference occasionally'.

UKIP is uniquely dishonest in pretending that it has a shot at forming a government. And I think Farage jettisoning the manifesto is something you are right to mention. Just like Carswell replacing Lord in breach of UKIP rules. You just can't give UKIP your vote on the basis of anything they say, even in their manifesto, because they will chuck it out on a whim/ for some short-term advantage at any moment.

Only they don't seem to be chucking out some of the less savoury bits, like flogging off the NHS, do they?

I guess the near as final Ukip manifesto will come out AFTER their conference, as they're recruiting to more than double their collective little grey brain cells - and I can't wait to see it as who will it be pitched to.

I assume the point of ditching the right of Conservative 2010 general election manifesto was to focus on Labour votes.

Now we see their key target seats are by far Conservative, and their rich ex Tory backers strategy is to win Westminster seats by whatever means/promises - will they go back to the 2010 manifesto likes of a 31p Flat Tax/National Insurance (to please the wealthy backers) or come up with arty farty people decide what £100 billions worth of services we cut 'democracy', or indeed a combo?

Isitmebut and Claig

we now have screens and screens full of postings about UKIP etc.

Most of it will never be read. Most of it will matter not one jot.

Who acares when a party's manifesto is published - as long as its there before the General Election A manifeto is not legally binding anyway so it's a pretty useless document.

The question we should be asking is Why are people rejecting the Tories and Labour?

The reason is because Labour no longer represents the aspirations of the demographic that brought the Labour party into being - it is run by an elite.

The reason is because the Tory party no longer appeals to its traditional voters who were the Middle Classses in Middle England - the Tories are an elite.

UKIP appears to the party of those who have been disenfranchised in the Tory and Labour grab for the middle ground.

I will never vote Tory again. I have never voted Labour and never will.

But carry on with the slating of UKIP. It just makes you look rather needy and desperate TBH. I'll take my chances with the swivel-eyed loons and their Dear Fruitcake Leader.

Farage went to Dulwich College. He is a millionaire. That makes him part of the very same establishment which you claim has disenfranchised other voters. How strange.

Dawn I agree. UKIP are an interesting blend of 'We're for the little man' rhetoric and 'Meet the new boss, same as the old boss' policies.

Sorry folks but you need to understand that UKIP. Does not consist solely of Farage and the people I have met at UKIP meetings are far from the stereotype public school elite that comprises the majority of the current Cabinet.

Hopefully less chance of the idiots being elected then wet. Honestly, most remotely sane people want to stay part of the EU. Most don't want the NHS privatised. Most just want sensible and fair policies, UKIP aren't showing what the hell they're standing for other than the rather hackneyed out of Europe stance. Oh, and they can't even get that right because of their policy of not voting at all, which does not benefit the UK, so they're not going to Europe to represent us, they're off on a bloody junket at tax payers expense.

Lord Ashcroft's polling on the Clacton by-election.
All over bar the shouting.

'My poll on the Clacton by-election, to be held on 9 October, the day David Cameron turns forty-eight, has found UKIP on 56 per cent, 32 points ahead of the Conservatives on 24 per cent. Labour were on 16 per cent, and the Liberal Democrats and Others on 2 per cent each.

More than half (59 per cent) of those who voted Conservative at the last general election said they would switch to UKIP, as did 45 per cent of 2010 Labour voters. Most of the Clacton electorate, including nearly nine out of ten UKIP supporters and more than half of Tories, expected Douglas Carswell to hold the seat for his new party.

...

'Even allowing for some movement in vote shares as the campaign unfolds over the next month, the likely outcome of the by-election is clear. What happens to the seat at the general election seven months later is rather less settled. As things stand, the indication is that Carswell could hold the seat, but perhaps with a reduced majority. In my poll thirty nine per cent said they would probably vote UKIP again at the general election next May, 22 per cent would vote Conservative and 15 per cent Labour – though a further 17 per cent said they did not know, would not vote, or refused to say. Among those naming a party, that puts UKIP on 48 per cent, a 21-point lead over the Tories.'

lordashcroftpolls.com/2014/09/clacton/

Dawndonna

To be kind, I don't think you understand much about politics in general and very little about Politics within the European
Union. Do you know what the key tenet if the EU actually it's?

saw that Ashcroft poll piece earlier Claig. liked the bit where the pollens were told by some that they voted UKIP at the last election - but there was no Ukip candidate in that election. They don't seem to have considered that the person my recently have moved to Clacton since an election in which they voted UKIP elsewhere
Interesting though