Conservative Carswell defects to UKIP

[Isitmebut]

Modernizer Carwell won the new Clacton seat in 2010 with a large majority, heavily influenced by Ukip deciding not to stand a candidate themselves – so he has found a natural home with those that have a totally anti EU stance, but seems to forget that Ukip without a parliamentary majority cannot change British law to bring us out.

Claig …… after all your rants about right wing ‘modernizers’, you now own another one – so time for you to ‘jump’ the other way? lol

P.S. His defection was hardly cold, but by 1.30pm Wikipedia had been changed to reflect his defection. Who do you think was in a hurry to reflect his move, Ukip or the Conservatives? lol

Yes, it is very dangerous. Most of the people who are interviewed are always the hawks who want intervention, and like you say it is the small puppet countries that are always promoted to speak for all of the European people.

It is very sad but I fear we are heading towards disaster because some important people want it. It is not necessary, but if you listen to all the ramped up rhetoric, it is looking more and more likely.

• Ukip’s Clacton candidate WAS Roger Lord, who joined Ukip in 1997 and loyally fought FOUR General Election for them.

• Roger Lord is local, works the land as a farmer and as he is ‘a man of the people’ and a fighter, so having been knifed by Farage ( but had to hear it over the radio rather than from the man/party he supported for 17-years) he will continue to campaign for Ukip, as that’s the man he is.

• Ukip rules state that you have to be a Ukip Member for 6-months before standing for public office.

• Ukip tell us that they will win a General Election with their candidates beating the Conservatives because THEIR 20-year old party with no policy credibility at all, is so “different” in ethics and not run by the ‘elites’ in Westminster, or anywhere else.

So WHY does Ukip, financed and run by a rich backer (Stuart Wheeler) on his policies, not Farages, trying to poach via interviews in a Mayfair restaurant SITTING Conservative MP’s - with good local voter support for the job THEY have done over 4-years or more, breaking Ukips own membership rules - if they were SO confident with the candidates they have?????? Lol

Why would a very anti EU Mr Carswell praising Cameron recently for giving him all he asked for in a 2017 EU Referendum, join a political party that pretends it can bring the UK out of the EU, and whose very existence means a pro EU Labour Party who only needs 31% of the vote in 2015 to form the next government in 2015 (with or withot the pro EU Lib Dems) – thus GUARANTEEING that the UK stays IN the EU for at least another 5-years?

Mr Carswell knows that unlike Ukips, Conservative General Election manifestos are considered binding, unless Ukip voters AGAIN ensures the only party that CAN deliver an EU vote is in a coalition a pro EU Lib Dem party (and a government without a majority) so their manifesto has to be negotiated. So if he has not ‘jumped’ for ANY chance of leaving the EU, is for power, to ensure he keeps his seat/salary and be ‘a big cog in a little wheel’????

“Stuart Wheeler (born 30 January 1935) is a British businessman and politician. He made his fortune as the founder of the spread betting firm IG Index in 1974, but is best known for his political activism,[1] being formerly a major donor to the Conservative Party and, since 2011, treasurer of the United Kingdom Independence Party.”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Wheeler

“UKIP Treasurer Stuart Wheeler's comment 'was sexist'”
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23717804
“Stuart Wheeler has denied being sexist by saying women were "nowhere near as good as men" at games like chess, bridge and poker.”

“Mr Wheeler said he had been explaining why companies should not be forced to appoint more women to their boards”

And having shown how iffy UKIP’s ethics are, in what they say and what they do, how about the ethics of the man pulling the ex Conservative Mr Farage’s strings – lunching and poaching MP’s from the only party that can give the IK an EU Referendum.

”I would rejoin Tories... but only with Boris as a leader, says mastermind who plotted coup from his castle”

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2738810/I-rejoin-Tories-Boris-leader-says-mastermind-plotted-coup-castle.html

• Stuart Wheeler lit the fuse on the 'Carswell coup' over a secret lunch

• He has been wining and dining a number of dissatisfied Tory MPs

• Former Tory said he would not return to the party with Cameron as leader

• But that could change if Boris took over and brought in Ukip-friendly policies

No wonder U-Kippers try to assassinate Boris, they’ll lose all their ‘elitist’ money if he was ALLOWED back.

If senior U-Kippers are Conservative 'wannabees', stop piss balling about, get out of the way and let the British public have an informed debate/EU Referendum AND keep the economic recovery going.

'so having been knifed by Farage ( but had to hear it over the radio rather than from the man/party he supported for 17-years) he will continue to campaign for Ukip, as that’s the man he is'

Exactly. He is UKIP through and through! Admirable!

'So WHY does Ukip, financed and run by a rich backer (Stuart Wheeler) on his policies, not Farages, trying to poach via interviews in a Mayfair restaurant SITTING Conservative MP’s '

To rock the Establishment and shake it to its core. They're reeling, the people are rocking!

'Why would a very anti EU Mr Carswell praising Cameron recently for giving him all he asked for in a 2017 EU Referendum, join a political party that pretends it can bring the UK out of the EU'

Probably because when he asked Cameron for some detail (as opposed to spin) about the planned EU reform, he was shellshocked and flabbergasted by the responses that he received. He couldn't believe it, he thought he knew all about spin, but this went beyond what even he imagined possible, so he decided to jump ship at the earliest opportunity. Admirable!

It's getting absolutely desperate at Tory HQ, they don't know what to do!

"JAMES FORSYTH: Cameron's about to take a long walk off Clacton Pier... "

"This weekend, operatives from Conservative Campaign Headquarters are on the ground in Clacton . The Tories are scrambling to put together a plan to defeat the Ukip insurgency."

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2738747/JAMES-FORSYTH-Cameron-s-long-walk-Clacton-Pier.html

But it gets even worse - the Daily Mail and Mail on Sunday Editorial - the one thing that strikes fear in every Tory apparatchik in the land. They read it in trepidation in fear of its condemnation because it speaks for the entire nation. This is what it says

"The bell tolls for Cameron's cosy clique"

"Backing for Ukip in Clacton is at an astonishing 64 per cent, while Tory support has crashed by 33 points.

If Mr Farage’s party can retain this advantage he will secure the largest by-election swing in history. A 12,000 Tory majority would turn into a Ukip majority of more than 15,000."

Just a protest vote? It seems not: more than nine out of ten of those planning to back Mr Carswell say they will do so again at the General Election.

The ‘Carswell coup’ has highlighted the growing disconnect between the Prime Minister and core Conservative supporters.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2738792/THE-MAIL-ON-SUNDAY-COMMENT-The-bell-tolls-Cameron-s-cosy-clique.html

This is not Newark, this is Essex - the real deal!

"Nigel Farage: More Tories could defect after 'high noon' by-election

Nigel Farage suggests he could pull more 'rabbits out of the hat' after Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip"

"Mr Farage said that other Tory MPs are "considering their options" and that if Ukip wins the by-election it could prove to be a "high noon moment".

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11062527/Nigel-Farage-More-Tories-could-defect-after-high-noon-by-election.html

Farage is a magician, he must be an honorary member of the Magic Circle with the amount of rabbits that he pulls out of hats.

" Ukip rules state that you have to be a Ukip Member for 6-months before standing for public office."

I don't recall reading this in the constitution, please enlighten me with the relevant paragraph.

I do recall such matters being the strict prerogative of the NEC.

"SpinFlight, I think that was an unfair attack on rf241. "

I disagree, having slept on the matter her comments were just as despicable as I first thought.

Think on this, you could have chosen a local council purely at random and the abuse in Rotherham could not have happened. Indeed the only two organisations in the land which had the means and motive and could possibly have allowed it are the labour and tory parties.

Would the holocaust still have happened if the National Socialists hadn't been in power? Of course not, it was a matter of ideology.

Therefore by inferring that UKIP representatives or people chosen purely at random would have acted no differently she is implying that the unspeakable horrors were inevitable; that the willful manipulation and interference on behalf of the abusers never happened; that the labour party and it's ideology are untainted by such an inconvenient story.

Indeed she confirmed it... Her Royal high PPE'ness condescended to inform us thus...

"I asked what UKIP in power would have changed? It seems as if there is culpability at every level throughout agencies and departments who shlukd have been protecting these children, and I'm not sure that it could have easily been solved by UKIP being in power. There was a criminal and dangerous approach to the abuse across the board and UKIP in power would not have been able to change this necessarily, THIS is what I meant? "

Clever, in a wicked PPE sort of a way, I grant you. Twisted might be a better word.

The culpability throughout agencies and departments was due to political pressure and interference. This pressure was applied by a party who had governed for 80 years and whose ideology and doctrine of multiculturalism was threatened.

That labour would rather allow the continued rape of vulnerable children for a generation in order to protect itself is bad enough.

Attempting to dismiss the atrocity and spin it as in any way inevitable is pure evil.

In the interests of parity witness this quote from a tory chief whip..

“Anyone with any sense who was in trouble would come to the whips and tell them the truth, and say now, “I’m in a jam, can you help?” It might be debt, it might be a scandal involving small boys, or any kind of scandal which a member seemed likely to be mixed up in, they’d come and ask if we could help. And if we could, we did. We would do everything we can because we would store up brownie points. That sounds a pretty nasty reason but one of the reasons is, if we can get a chap out of trouble, he’ll do as we ask forever more.”

What of the small boys? Did they receive justice? Did the pederasts in question ever face a court of law?

Of course they didn't. Same as labour, the reputation of the party and control of a single MP was more important than a mere innocent pleb being brutally raped by someone elected and sworn to protect them.

If you think that anyone in UKIP or the wider public at large would allow paedophiles to rape as they please to protect rich and powerful PPE types or institutions then you probably think like a PPE and have probably spent too much time around them.

"It's going to station troops on the border and these troops can be committed by the EU without having to seek agreement from the national Govt the troops are from"

The formation of an EU army ( it is of course denied that such a thing exists) is something I have been trying to raise awareness of for years.

The fact is that a multinational rapid reaction force, which has existed since the 90's, suddenly came under the direct control of an EU committee in 2008 is rarely reported. Possibly because it was at the height of the financial crisis, on a good day to bury bad news no doubt.

To me men with guns in uniform who stand to attention during the EU anthem, whose cap badge and flag display the EU symbol and who are commanded by the EU constitutes an EU army.

Eurocorps is worth a google. As too are EU battlegroups.

This is out in the open, which is usually the best place to hide something.

One of the architects of the EU even wrote a book after the Iraqi war describing how the UK must be marginalised and an EU core military force established. It might as well have been a manifesto.

Have just googled eurocorps and eu battle groups. How did I not know about this?

Spin flight you really are an imbecile.

I don't think there's much point wasting time rebutting your last post, as anybody with half a brain can read my posts and see that you have twisted my words/claiming I said things i didn't.

'Clever, in a wicked PPE type of way'

LOL

I can at least take solace in the fact that though I may be despicable and pure evil, I'm at least clever. Phew.

Legalalien,

Because out wonderful liblabcon MEPs who rubber stamped it didn't seek to draw your attention to it. The vote itself was on the 5/6/08 and the resolution is quite clear.

For the rationale behind the eurocorps I would suggest reading up on Juergen Habermas. It could be coincidence that EU policy follows his own philosophy to the letter, however I doubt it.

If you follow me in a leap of faith that he is the beating heart of the EU project then his recent pronouncements on brexit, the financial crisis and Ukraine become rather worrying.

Crikey, Spinflight, rein it in.

by inferring that UKIP representatives or people chosen purely at random would have acted no differently she is implying that the unspeakable horrors were inevitable; that the willful manipulation and interference on behalf of the abusers never happened; that the labour party and it's ideology are untainted by such an inconvenient story.

I read her as asking you what in particular of UKIP's policies and/or attitudes and/or ethics would have operated to prevent the scandal. It is a legitimate question, I think, and is not inferring any of the things you suggest.

Claig, what would you say to the argument that people are often happy to shake things up and cast a protest vote at a by-election, but will then often return to conventional voting for an established mainstream party at a general election? People love having the (rare) power to set the political agenda and have the media buzzing, but when it comes to choosing a government they aren't so brave.

If I'm right, then Carswell will probably get in now (ha ha, hee hee) but may then not get back in in 2015. of course, this is an unusual situation because, as a floor-crosser, he's a known quantity and established politician, so we'll see.

Abbie,

No particular ethics, policies or attitudes, other than the merest hint of humanity and common decency, are needed to protect our children from such deeds.

I assumed it was instinctive, a self evident fact that didn't need stating.

With the exception of warzones or viscous dictatorships can you think of an instance where the mass rape of children has been tolerated, never mind abetted, by the authorities?

No, I can't, and I quite agree that deploring it should be unexceptional. But we must beware of over-simplification. When you come across a situation where institutions have failed and that kind of depravity has become entrenched, how do you go about combating it? Mere outrage is not enough.

How do you identify the police officers and social workers who are going to help you put a stop to it? If you discipline the ones who have failed, do you then incur the hostility of their peers, and so fail to get the cooperation you need? How does one recruit better people? Can you get funding to give the child witnesses the kind of practical protection they need if they are ever going to give evidence?

You and I can emote and opine. But people who want to be elected representatives have to have the ability to analyse systems failures clearly and then present sensible, realistic and costed proposals for ending them and preventing future failures. UKIP (like all our other political parties, it has to be said) simply doesn't do that.

More and more I feel that none of our political parties or their key senior figures seems to have any real sense of or competence in the simple, everyday process of governing. It is incredibly dispiriting. I worry as much about that as about any amount of distasteful rhetoric.

'Claig, what would you say to the argument that people are often happy to shake things up and cast a protest vote at a by-election, but will then often return to conventional voting for an established mainstream party at a general election?'

That used to be the case. That is the conventional wisdom. But everything has changed. The reason is that the public is truly fed up and Conservative voters in particular have had enough because Cameron's party is not Conservative, it is a progressive, modernising joke of a party. The poll in Clacton showed that 49% of Conservative voters thought Carswell was a hero and that many more Conservative voters would vote for him again in the General Election.

It is not about Euripe. It is that we all know that this so-called Conservative party hasn''t got a conservative bone in their body. They are not on our side and they don't represent us.

Tory membership has halved, no one believes in the progressive things they stand for. Essex is Thatcher territory - self-reliance, independence, aspiration, low taxes, no nanny state, freedom, common sense, no spin, no political correctness, standing up for ordinary people. And that is everything that this Tory party is not with their metropoliatn rooftop wind turbines, their five-a-days, their minimum alcohol pricing and just about every single thing they do or touch.

People put up with it for a long time, but they can't take any more of it. We all now know that they are not on our side, so we are no longer on their side either. We want small government, fewer luvvies telling us what to do, no more of our taxes wasted in these charidees and sociai market enterprises and all the organisations full of the metropolitan luvvies who siphon our taxpayer money off and waste it instead of spending it in hospitals and schools and on fixing potholes etc.

We don't like Labour, but the Tories are frankly not much different, so we are now past caring. We will no longer vote to be cheated and made mugs of. This is not just a protest vote because we all know that these so-called Tories are not on our side and never really will be. That is why we have turned to a party of ordinary people - UKIP. Most of us won't go back. Politics has changed. We are witnessing the beginning of the end of the Tory party. They do not represent ordinary people, they are not on our side and that is their Achilles Heel.

When Farage comes to Essex, he is treated like a hero. Cars hoot, people wave, everyone has a smile on their face, and it because he offers hope that someone will listen to us, solve our problems and cut all the spin and the crap. We know that no one else will.

The luvvies in their ivory towers in Westminster don't know what ordinary people think and they don't care either, but when they have to go on the ground in Clacton, they will learn what the people really think of them.

I don't share your enthusiasm for UKIP, but I do think you are onto something with the way the political class (and they do come across as a class of samey Oxbridge PPE people across all three main parties) has become detached from the wider electorate.

It feeds into the Europe debate too. Frankly, I think as a country we would almost certainly lose out if we left Europe. The trouble is, staying in Europe creates winners and losers, but no one is particularly honest about that. If you are a middle-class graduate with a foreign language, then frankly you generally gain: nice Erasmus-funded year abroad at uni, lots of job opportunities. I'm one of those. Clegg is the prototype Euro-gainer.

Blue collar manufacturing worker or unskilled? Probably fucked. So why would people vote for it?

I'm quite cynical of those in the political class who are Euro-sceptics. It has got less to do with public interest for them than self-interest, in my view. When have they ever cared about the manufacturing or unskilled worker, except as voting fodder? They feel, rightly or wrongly, that their position as a ruling class is threatened by Europe and that is their real objection to it.

The problem is that staying in Europe means that we lose democracy and lose our sovereignty and hand power over to an unelected elite in Brussels who themselves are merely puppets of a global banking elite. They can then easily make rules such as stopping the sale of hairdryers, lawn mowers, vacuum cleaners of low wattage and anything else they like that is more important than vacuum cleaners. The EU is a big business club set up to remove power from the people and move them in the same direction.

We are being moved into a war with Russia and you can see that every European ledaer is on the same page, they have to be, because they are not in charge. They are not independent. A supranational elite is in charge and it decides. The people won't be asked if we want a war, it will be decided for us.

I am middle class, I speak three foreign languages, I love Europe and European culture. I am not a Little Englander. But it is not about my short-term economic gain or prospects, it is about the future of all the people in the country, it is about rule by the people, it is about democracy.
It is about the majority having the right to decide how we want to live, who will govern us and if we want to go to war.

'When have they ever cared about the manufacturing or unskilled worker, except as voting fodder? They feel, rightly or wrongly, that their position as a ruling class is threatened by Europe and that is their real objection to it.'

Our ruling class is subservient to a global ruling class and that is why they sign away our democratic birthright and move to war when told to. The Euro-sceptics are not our ruling class, in fact Cameron calls them "fruitcakes".

'I'm quite cynical of those in the political class who are Euro-sceptics.'

Yes I am too, particularly some of them in the Tory Party. But I think there are some principled people who do believe in the country rather than themselves and in the people and in democracy. But you always have to be cynical and sceptical in case they are only play acting or playing a game.

I'm in Clacton, although moving away on the 19th. I know loads of UKIP supporters, unfortunately. People like Farage here. Why? Well, he promises loads of things and with the state of the job market here, he also gives someone to blame things on (immigrants, EU and so on) when the problems came from before that. There's loads of people with no jobs or poorly paid jobs depending on tourists and tourism, it's very seasonal. So a lot of people have become disillusioned with the main parties and the current situation and UKIP provide a magical way out. I'm a Labour supporter, fwiw, and would never support UKIP, but I get why people might and I think UKIP might well win, unfortunately.

I went to Margate recently. My God, what an eye-opener. Away from the front and the new gallery etc, we found delapidated reeking streets strewn with rubbish, populated by Roma and other South-Eastern Europeans variously sad, threatening or just blank.

I haven't seen anything like it since, perhaps, the 'front-line' of All Saints Road, Notting Hill in the mid-80s before any YUPPIE would be caught dead there. It's not that I didn't know a lot of seaside towns were like this, but seeing it is something else. The kids were made very uneasy just being there.

I think of those streets and then I think of Cameron and just wonder if he knows or cares, let alone actually bothering to have any proposals about the place.

I'm not surprised the Thanet seats are in UKIP's sights.

They have punitive policies of bedroom tax etc, workfare etc

The can't change much. They can't even protect public industries etc because that would be against EU competition policy, so privatisation rolls on and fat cats get richer. They focus on things like changing our PMQs, that is the best they can do and it makes it look as if they are doing something.

Catchphrases are invented by spinners to keep the people quiet - Big Society etc. and taxpayer money is siphoned off into charidees staffed by the metroplitan elite.

It is sad and there must be something better. The public has had enough and Clacton will show it.