I'm astonished that so many people are in favour of...

[emkana]

... smacking

I agree with socci 100%. of course children learn by example. choosing not to hit sends a very clear message that hitting is wrong, and that there are better ways to deal with any situation than resolving it by the bigger person smacking the smaller person. which is a very good lesson to learn imo.
I do shout, though, more often than I would like and I sometimes say things that I regret afterwards to get dd1 to do things (she is VERY wilful) and I always feel bad about it afterwards. I think shouting and emotional lackmail can be damaging too. None of us are perfect, we are just doing the best we can. If I think I have lost my temper I apologise because I think that's a good model too, although it sometimes kill me to do it tbh

lol HC, I apologise too if I have gone overboard and bellowed at them, but it feels like swallowing a house brick sometimes

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Yes I do apologise to my children I didn't mean I think that's wrong I just think that messing with the childs head is worse than the smack.

My experience with my son has shown mw han shouting and emotional blackmail are far worse than a smack.
I have done both, have unfortunatly been able compare the results on his behaviour and our relationship. Believe me, a tap on the bottom is much better.

I was smacked as a child. I used to beat my brother up. I got into physical fights until I was about 16 (punching, not catfights).

I have chosen a different upbringing for my children, partly because I think I am naturally quite violent.

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It doesn't have to be an either/or situation. I don't emotionally blackmail my children or smack them, but I still expect them to do as they are told

Agree, Bugsy.

Socci, 2 comments.
My reference of the 6pm posts is that this time is, in my family, a family time where I would never think on sitting in front of a computer. If I was judging you thinking that that time HAD to be family time then you would appear to be a bad mum which you are certainly NOT. The same applies to aprenting methods.
I don't know if you have rad one of my previous post but I explained ther that I had very bad PND with ds1. I was angry, loosing my temper very easily and battling on my own because GP & HV didn't recognized it and I was too ashamed of myself to go to talk to anyone about it. So yes I have smacked my baby (Awfull isn't it) because I was ill. And it took me 2 year to really recover enough to be able to start working on my realtionship with my son and my parenting mehods. I have 'tried' a lot of techniques, including the really 'bad ones' so I know by experience the damage they can cause. And I know that emotional abuse is far worse than a tap on the bottom. It's not a problem of 'what does it teach the child' but 'what kind of emotional damage can it do comapre to shouting, verbal abuse etc...' Again, my experience has unfortunatly shown me that any sort of emotional pain is worse than the physical pain of a smack.

Is there anyone you have loved who hasn't hurt you? I think its impossible. If you love you get hurt and you hurt others even when trying not to.

And obvioulsy in the best of worl, you don't want to do any of these. But I don't leave in the best of the world and I know I am not the only one. Otherwise tere would be far less than 60% of parents agreeing with smacking...

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I don't live in the best world either Babounette, but I still don't smack my children.

Not quite sure I understand the "love & hurt" post Rosylily. Lots of people I don't love have hurt me as well as those that I've loved or have been loved by. Not quite sure where this fit with a discussion about smacking though?

Rosylily, I am talking about seen fear in the eyes of my child, about seeing him withdrawing from me because he was scared.
I do know that my experience is extreme compare to the one most parents have and TBH it is just as well because I do not wish to anyone to have been in my situation.
But it helped me too to see first hand how you can 'damaged' your child and would be very damaging for him. Any consistent emotional pain is definitvely worse.

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People who never smack also hurt their children is my point.

BTW, I never sais I was pro or against smacking. For me it is a 'neutral' tool as it has good sides and bad ones so it requires great care in using it and if at all possible not using it just as well.
My comment is not what is 'the best' but what is 'better'.

i do smack but not often.
I am a moderate. Dont really like it but believe it has a place. My kids are lovely things and i do get told so a fair bit. I think some of the posters comments re
smacked/unsmacked = unruly mad or timid are plain silly.
Lots of children from each camp are all those things. I think the argument is more beatings v not doing rather than the occasional smack

Babounette, surely it is better not to smack your children at all. I don't get this emotional blackmail vs smacking idea. It is not necessary to do either.
Roselily, I am sure that I will unintentionally hurt my children, that is the nature of human relationships. However, I would never willingly cause them unnecessary emotional or physical pain & for me that includes smacking.

I am sure there are not many people who never get it wrong in any way. If we are all going to stop smacking our children it will happen gradually and with loads of support and education for parents. If that was the way our society was I wonder would it help with the huge problem of child abuse?

"But If someone chooses not to smack then they lose it and do smack, then they feel screwed up and guilty and start apologising to the child.... what a mess. The child has to then forgive the parent."

The child doesn't has to forgive the parent. I don't imagine that the child is aware that there is anything to forgive - but I teach my children if they do something wrong to someone then they apologise. They express remorse to let the other person know that they regret their actions. How can they do that if I don't? I can't always apologise instantly as I am usually too worked up but I will always do so soon after the event. And I always get a hug and an 'it's alright mummy'. I don't think it does children any harm to see someone acting like a human being rather than some perfect robot parent - but then apologising for it afterwards to show that it is not acceptable.

Following this debate with much interest, as a parent, of course.

A question came to mind, that's slightly off topic, but...Does this make a case for some kind of compulsory parenting classes during preganancy or something?

Bugsy2, I actually understand why this idea is so foreign to you. It would have been for me a few years ago.

Now you lot have been looking at 'xxxx best methods of discipline' v smacking, I am looking at 'yyy worst methods of discipline' v smacking. I am coming from the other end of the scale than you all.

I am just sharing with you what my own experience has taught me. That it is sometimes necessary to compare the so called bad methods for your sanity as a parent and for the sake of the children and put them on a scale. Putting emotional abuse in the same bag, and treating it the same way, than smacking or hitting just didn't work fo me. I had to move from being a 'very bad mum' to be a 'bad mum' and then 'a not such a bad mum afterall' (Or at least that's how I have seen myself these last few years). That's why I have been comparairing the methods so much and arrive to some sort of categorization.

As most other parents, you probably have been 'quite a good mum afterall' at all times. Because you surely are a well balanced, emotionally stable mum, you might think that finding the advantages/disadvantages of smacking or blackmailing totally unhelpfull but it helped me because the ways I was using to discipline my child were not the most suitable. I would hope it can help others, if they have had the courage to stay on this thread after so long