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I'm astonished that so many people are in favour of...

686 replies

emkana · 20/09/2006 09:38

... smacking

OP posts:
wannaBe1974 · 26/09/2006 17:53

lucy I was put in time out as a child and I have memories of sobbing my heart out and thinking no-one loved me because I'd been shut in a room. it's not all black and white.

thankyoupoppet · 26/09/2006 17:55

totally agree greeny about assumption.

wannabe I really hope I you are not confusing what I am saying re- abuse.

I am no way suggesting that parents who smack their child are abusing them. if you are refering to me then please re-read all of my posts.

(thinkI'm the only one who has 'harped on' about child abuse on here).

wannaBe1974 · 26/09/2006 17:58

no tp I'm referring to posts much further down the thread. the poster didn't say that in so many words but the tone of the posts does suggest it.

thankyoupoppet · 26/09/2006 17:59

which one was it? I'll have a read (save me reading all of them)

RoxyNotFoxy · 26/09/2006 17:59

I think the question of smacking should be looked at in a wider way than just as a physical thing, because what can be said against it can also be said against verbal violence - shouting and screaming at children. What is wrong with both ways is that they can have traumatic effects. They come under the heading of "fast solutions", and those are nearly always damaging in any area of life. For example, in gym training everyone should know that it's a bad idea to do too much too soon. People who impose too big a load on their bodies in order to achieve faster progress always pay a price in terms of disturbed metabolism, pulled muscles, damaged joints, and so on. To progress more slowly gives the body time to absorb the training and development is always smoother.

I think it's the same with children's minds. They are very easily traumatised. To try to correct their behaviour with some kind of blast of emotion - either by smacking or shouting at them - is trying to achieve change instantly. You might succeed in the short term, when the child ceases (for the moment) to misbehave, but there could be an emotional price somewhere, even if you can't see it immediately. There will be some kind of hurt, some kind of resentment, or fear, or other negative emotion. And by accumulation it could be personality-changing. They could become more obstreperous than they were before, or they could go in the opposite direction and become withdrawn. You can't predict it.

Obviously, some people seem to survive a childhood where there was lots of smacking without apparent damage (but you can only take their word for it). But when dealing with children you can't make calculations like that. Even if only one in ten was psychologically damaged, that should be seen as unacceptable. And you'd certainly think so if your child turned out to be one of them, wouldn't you?

It isn't just the smacking that's wrong. The impatience is wrong. It's saying to a child "Why aren't you perfect already?" Why should they be? Their minds are still in the process of formation, and trying to force the pace is bound to produce negative side-effects. Dealing with children is the most difficult job in the world, and there is no substitute for patience. You just have to keep on gently correcting them, while setting a good example yourself. They'll get the message eventually.

thankyoupoppet · 26/09/2006 18:02

well said

FillyjonktheBananaEater · 26/09/2006 18:59

would agree

GreenLumpyTonsils · 26/09/2006 19:00

good post, that

FillyjonktheBananaEater · 26/09/2006 19:02

yes but how do we bl**dy do it, thats the question?

kittywits · 26/09/2006 22:43

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

fatfox · 27/09/2006 07:12

Mornin all - wow you lot have been chatting!

Totally agree with the comments about stereotypes. Some of our very best friends, who we mix with all the time, are people whose parenting methods are a 1,000 miles away from ours, but we get on very well so tend not to get embroiled in discussions about each others methods, as its such a sensitive subject.

There is nothing worse than other people preaching to you how to bring up your kids is there?

Mind you, saying that, I just can't stay away from the controversial threads

kittywits · 27/09/2006 07:46

I've been thinking about this discussion a bit and think that it is only in today's society that we could have the luxury or time to discuss and analyse in the way that we do.
I do far too much gazing at my own and my children's navels, it's not a good thing. I have enough problems beating myself up about my general inadequacies without reading parenting books ( I have dipped in but have never found them helpful) I prefer to face face to face or computer to computer discussions.

I am infact a very liberal and easy going parent. My children are on a very 'long lead', to use a pet analogy, but I expect them to come to heal.
People here have talked up not gaining respect/gaining respect through smacking. My children respect me, it has nothing to do with the rare smack.
For me the bottom line is I see absolutely nothing wrong with the odd smack.
I don't see it as abusive AT ALL. It is always the last recourse for me, but it is one I am prepared to use.
To be quite honest with all you non smackers. the children I know whose parents dodn't smack are some of the most ill discilplined children I have met, the are rude, disobedient, full of their own self importance and unpleasant to be around. I'm sure that's my bad luck, I am sure there are children who are smacked very regularly who are aggresive and unpleasant.
Whilst I contunue to modify my parenting methods all the time, I shall not be withdrawing a odd smack.

beegee · 27/09/2006 08:20

Good post kittywits.

I've been watching this thread with interest. Although i don't use smacking in general i see nothing wrong with it. Certain children respond very well to different forms of disapline and it IS needed in some cases.

I was smacked occassionally as a child. My mum was a single parent bringing up 4 ...we were really well behaved AND YES, HAPPY. We all respected my mum. In fact i loved her and still do very much - we have a great relationship. (eg...she was present at my dds birth 6 mths ago and i speak to her everyday/see her every week.)

There were times when she felt angry and gave us a smack if we were doing something that was inappropriate. Other than that she used the warning 'one more time and you'll get a smack'. Always made us stop and THINK about what we were doing...a great thing to think.

BTW IMHO I don't think one can always give a smack without the emotion of anger..but i do think that on the whole a mothers instinct works very well. We know our children and what works with them.

Socci · 27/09/2006 08:30

Message withdrawn

beegee · 27/09/2006 08:36

socci

we never smacked each other as children even though smacking was occassionally used as a device by my mum. in fact we were physically never aggressive with each other and we were very popular socially with our peers. we learnt that violence was not acceptable and wouldn't be tolerated.

a parent smacking is different. children don't try and sit their parents on the naughtystep FFS!

Socci · 27/09/2006 08:39

Message withdrawn

speedymama · 27/09/2006 08:41

Socci, some children who are not smacked do go round hitting other children - I've seen it. Similarly, children that are smacked do not always go round hitting others.

I agree with Kittywits FWIW.

Socci · 27/09/2006 08:44

Message withdrawn

beegee · 27/09/2006 08:46

Socci - Well, why have i never hit anyone in my life if smacking taught me TO HIT? And never hit my toys btw! If children are playing out sitting their toys on the naughty step i think that's a worry.

Socci · 27/09/2006 08:49

Message withdrawn

beegee · 27/09/2006 08:51

Socci - BTW I DO agree that children learn by example but smacking as copying their parents?? Just giving you my experience, and it didn't happen with us. On the contrary - we were very gentle children and all 4 of us got on well.

beegee · 27/09/2006 08:52

to that example, socci. That's not nice at all..

Socci · 27/09/2006 08:55

Message withdrawn

Rosylily · 27/09/2006 09:47

I think that if someone chooses to smack a child and they have no issues with it, its not complicated and a clear boundary drawn....fair enough. But If someone chooses not to smack then they lose it and do smack, then they feel screwed up and guilty and start apologising to the child.... what a mess. The child has to then forgive the parent. Awful. I choose not to smack but anytime I have not known what else to do and given a smack I felt terrible because I'm so desperate not to be like my mum but I keep my guilt to myself.

Babounette · 27/09/2006 09:52

beegee & Kitty, thanks a lot for your posts.
I really liked the 'mothering instinct' bit.
I am SO fed up with people patronizing, being judgemental and thinking they can judge your parenting methods from two lines written on a computer!
And at the same time, I was surprised to see so many posts around 6.00pm, a time that, in my family, we are spending together having our evening meal, playing a bit and preparing to go to bed! A lot of you must have a very different routine than me.
In the same way, we all have different parenting methods. As long as they are working for you as a family (adults & children) then where is the problem?
In my mind, smacking as well as time out would be in a neutral ish position between using praise, rewards, repairing the mistake, letting children learning by themselves (good) and hitting, putting down, labelling, compairing siblings (bad).
I would just hope that people wouldn't be so judgemental of the parenting methods of others because it causing a lot of pain to the mums and dads who are struggling - whatever the reason- and are already doubting of their own abilites as a parent. Saying that a light tap on the bottom should be treated the same way than hitting or verbal abuse is IMO over the top and does not help anyone, not the children who ARE really hit by the parents nor the parents who doubt of their own abilities. If I had read this thread 1.5 year ago, I would have been even more devastated by the way I was treating my son. It wouldn't have done anything for me except feeling even more ashamed, stopping me asking for some help and probably dragging me down even more. . We quite oftem tell our children to think before they say something because it could hurt someone, perhaps it is time for US to think before we type something on a computer. (BTW, I am against anyone expressing their point of view, it's how you do it and when you suggest that people are 'lazy', 'abusive' etc wo knowing the how, why and reasons that is a problem)