I'm astonished that so many people are in favour of...

[emkana]

... smacking

Because everyone is different???

What I think is really interesting is your memory of smacking in your childhood vs your mother's memory. We had the occasional smack with a wooden spoon in the midst of a very loving childhood. (Although I don't think it hurt me I don't believe it's right to hit anyone (unless they are putting you in danger), and particularly not a small child, and in particular the small child you love most in the world.) However, my mother swears she controlled us by just a look and that we were never smacked. A friend and her mother have different recollections of smacking too.

I have recently stopped smacking my children. I It made me feel crap and I'm sure it made then feel worse. I told them that this would be a no smacking house from now on ( they are 4,3,2) I told DD off the other day and she said to me all wide eyed 'I love you mummy, this is a no smacking house isnt it, thank you for not smacking me'. she gave me a big hug as well. I felt pretty s**t I can tell you for every time I have smacked them or dragged them off to the naughty corner when they naughty. The reality is that they are children and being good takes more effort that being naughtly sometimes.

Totally shocked that smacking is a calm and reasoned response..

Removing child from situation/time out/removal of toy etc etc sounds a hell of a lot calmer to me.

I feel bloody awful when i yell at ds and thankfully that doesnt happen very often. The idea of smacking children as a 'discipline' is basically imo a very lazy way to punish on the most part as it doesnt require thought or reason. Yes i was smacked as a child and no i do not feel that i was greatly harmed but speakng to my mum, she wishes she never smacked.

My ds of 6 is well mannered and behaved. Rarely need to use the naughty step and he doesnt hit me or other kids. Obviously he has his moments, but dont most kids and when they happen usually easily dealth with. Smakcing has crossed my mind when i have been really stressed... hence re-inforcing my opinion that it is most definately not a calm and reasoned response..

Typing this am racking my brains to think when a smack is acceptable.. I think to smack a hand away from a plug socket.. it is the lesser of two pains then.

HRH QoQ how do you know that lots of children who arent smacked hit too? Is there evidence as would be interested in reading it?

I would also like a non smacking house as ds (27 mo) packs quite a punch

Re naughty step - not down to be all powerful imo. Used very rarely when ds has lost it and needs time for himself to calm down mostly. I think the last time i used it was about 2 months ago.. if not longer.

We have a reward chart which means he gets a sticker for homework, being helpful etc.

I know i will prob get shot down for this but skimming the posts I do wonder whether time out is sometimes over used and misused. I watched super nanny last night and it was a prime example.

Awen, I agree re naughty step overuse. I've posted before re someone I know who threatens her DD with the naughty step five times in the course of a meal, simply for not eating fast enough (ie one mouthful after another without pause - this little girl is just two - and yes, I have suggested other tacks, but this mother just started to explain the naughty step theory to me, so I killed her).

MrsD, I think you've overreacted. You say further down the thread you're confident with your choice - so be it, that's fine, we shall agree to disagree. But I am afraid I will post my views on smacking - they are not aimed specifically at you.

Will be watching Extras, not another whack expose tonight..

haven't read the whole thread but i just have to say, if i smacked my dp if he did something i didn't like it would be common assault, but if you hit a child who can't necesarily defend themselves, how is that ever ok? You just don't hit people when they do something which irritates. If in self defence then obviously yes.

interesting discussion on Lorraine Kelly today - also showed an extract from tonight's programme.

I expect it will be sensationalist like the extended bf programmes.

Hi, I have never posted any comments on this site before but I feel that I would like to say how I feel about smacking. I was bought up having a smack if I was naughty. Most of the time it was a controlled smack but I do remember my dad smacking me out of frustration. My daughter is 3.5 years and I have smacked her a couple of times. After each time I felt really bad because I realised that I was smacking as a last resort because I couldn't get her to do as she was told, a frustration smack. I now make every effort to control myself when I get to the point when I want to smack her bottom because I know that it will only make me feel crap and she will cry. I will then hug her and say I'm sorry and then the reason for the punishment will be forgotten and when she is naughty again it will all begin again. Sorry to go on but I know that my instinct to react with a smack when hurt or angry is due to being smacked as a child and I'm trying my hardest to control myself, and thankfully succeeding.

These are the reasons I wouldn't smack (although I realise that some of them are personal to me and my relationship with DS, age almost 3).

1. I was smacked as a child. I don't think it damaged me (well no more than being formula fed, not getting a proper house for Sindy etc. etc.). However, I clearly remember that all it encouraged me to do was carry out whatever behaviour I was being smacked for when my mum wasn't looking. The other thing that would usually follow a smack was me crying in my room for about an hour (piteously for whichever parent hadn't smacked me - "Daddy, Daddy!") and then behaving badly for the rest of the day - not a great result.
2. DS is quite big for his age and strong. He loves to copy things he sees around him, whether that be pretending to ice his bad back like Daddy or quoting lines from his favourite films. He is also at the stage where he is very aware of good and bad behaviour in his fellow toddlers. I would hate him to smack another child who he thought was misbehaving, particularly as it is quite likely that they would be smaller than him.
3. Sometimes it would be lovely to have a way of getting DS to behave that only took a second. The problem is that I have found that the only way to change DS's behaviour is to model the good behaviour in front of him (e.g. not throwing food) and if he does something either calmly correcting him (e.g. rapid return at bed time) with as little fuss as possible so the situation doesn't escalate, or letting him experience the 'natural' consequence of his actions. (E.g. play with DVD player, can't watch DVD). I think smacking goes badly wrong when people see it as an end in itself and all you get is the smack, not any of the back up. To be fair, as others have said, you can also abuse the naughty step. I expect that other people on this thread who smack also try to re-enforce good behaviour. However, for me smacking just seems irrelevant to getting DS to behave.

JT, I honestly wasn't trying to get a rise out of you when I posted re nosepicking. I didn't remember the exact context of the comment, is all.

Agree re sensationalism - and do you know, even though I have that C5 extended bfeeding prog recorded, I don't think I want to watch it. I know it done well. So I don't want it in my head.

(Hello, Mollymoo - welcome to MN)

Re time out/naughty step, did anybody else see the interview with Penelope Leach in the Radio Times? She has a major downer on Super Nanny (but likes Dr Tanya). She said that the major point of Time Out (as introduced in the 70's) was to let both parties calm down when a young child was having a tantrum, not to be used as a form of punishment.

PSML Custy

Spot on

At last someone speaks reason about the Naughty Step! I can see it's great to turn around families where they need desperate measures for a few months i.e. Supernanny prog, and lots of the parents on the programme also need to remove their kids for a few minutes to allow themselves to calm down, BUT I agree with an earlier poster that it's demeaning to kids and people have become obsessed with it's use.

Thomas is 5 months and I know his daddy(DF) will smack him when he is older. DFs parents would smack him when he was younger. I didn't want to get into an argument with him over it at the time because I would like to try other things first.

I was smacked too and I clearly remember my mum smacking me, which ended up with me lying on the floor with a nose bleed (she hadn't hit me in the face or anything). In fact, I think I may have tripped running to my room because I also remember how upset and sorry she was after. I was under 9 years old. I also remember dad hitting me on the head as a teenager because he'd managed to catch an earring on his sleeve and bent it! I was more upset that he'd bent my earring!

DF said his parents won't stand for any nonsense from Thomas. To be honest, I'd hate to leave him with them when he's a bit older. If anyone is going to smack my child, it will be me and DF.

I always think about smacking threads far too much. The mums & dads I see smacking their kids are not using it as an effective discipline tool. I've seen kids smacked in supermarkets, in the park, at playgroups & at friends houses. More often than not, there is no warning or using it as a last resort. Small child is whinging, moaning, writhing in the trolley, mother is at the end of her tether - quick slap around the legs & hisses "will you shut up". In the park, small child is getting a bit enthusiastic with the spade & hits another child with it, mother walks over from the bench where she has been ignoring the child, smacks it & says "don't hit other children with the spade" and then walks away again. In other peoples houses, I've seen smacks administered on numerous occasions where the mum clearly can't think of how to stop what the child is doing so she smacks it.
Now, if these parents are happy to administer smacks like this in public I doubt very much they are holding back at home. This is the sort of pointless, unnecessary smacking that I find so very depressing. It is not a last resort for a child or even given after multiple warnings, it is just a slap because the parent can't be bothered to think of something else.

If my inlaws said they wouldn't stand for any nonsense from my children, they wouldn't see them again tbh.

Children are children, they wind you up, their behaviour is 'nonsense' that is how they make sense of the world, by pushing boundaries.

Last night dd1 hit dd2 in the face with a member of Happyland (!), I had them both screaming and crying, I had been in from work for 20 mins and quite frankly was not in the mood.

But what do you do? Hit them and tell them not to hit? I did my usual (im)patient explaining that we don't do that etc etc and all was well after a short while.

I don't use a 'naughty step' - I ask my children to sit on the stairs while they (and I sometimes) calm down.

To be fair to supernanny (who I don't much like) she quite often uses a chill-out/calm down area too with older kids.

Bugsy I always totally agree with your posts on this subject.

Someone said here the naughty step is 'demeaning' to kids. Well yes I see that, but it is punishment.

So now we cannot smack and we cannot use the step, pray tell me what are we allowed to do??

BTW DD1 was not allowed to go to ballet class yesterday as she had another of her stupid paddys (the girl is 7 and acts more like Nicki everyday!!)

"And I'm just surprised that there are so many people who it does occur to."

It doesn't occur to you, it just happens! I have always sworn never ever to hit my kids but it has happened. Not often thankfully, but sometimes. I am always ashamed and always apologise to them afterwards. I don't use smacking as a method of disciplining them as I don't think it's fair and I don't think it works. However I am a human being and I am frequently in a rush and under huge amounts of stress...and occassionally I snap. Mostly it results in my shouting at the kids but sometimes I hit out.

I don't defend what I do and I genuinely don't see how you can use smacking as part of a strategy to teach and discpline children.

However to those who say that if it's illegal to hit adults, it should be illegal to hit children I would add one comment. Children are not adults - parents put up with behaviour from their children that they would never had to put up with from other adults. They have also sole responsiblity for their children much of the time so when their children do something dangerous or very unpleasant they react much more strongly than they would if an adult did the same. Not condoning it as I say but I think to compare the 2 is a little simplistic.

dd1 had a MAJOR strop the othe day, over what I have no idea.

So I just said "fine, we won't bother going to the play area then, I can watch you misbehave just as well from in the house"

cue transformation

I find ignoring bad behaviour works with dd1 and kind or reasoning with her (if you can reason with a 3, nearly 4 year old). Dd2 is only 2 and I don't think you can chastise a 2 year old, only tolerate (imo) as they are not really aware as such.