Establishment Paedophiled Part 2 : **Warning, potential triggers**

[standwellclearvehiclereversing]

A new thread following on from the previous one in Chat here

I honestly think we have to do what we can to keep it in the public consciousness - and try getting those who "won't look" to at least peek round the edge. It seems likely that a lot of influential people would prefer everyone to think it's all been dealt with somehow, forget it for another ten years and carry on as normal. Continued public pressure's the only thing that will get things changed, imo.

How can they do that to anyone!!

It's an interesting question. They can't all be "innate" paedophiles or sadists. I've been reading from links posted on other threads, and it seems basically to be like porn escalation - and, according to American services, coming from porn escalation. A person might start off with 'normal' porn, then try more violent versions and get a bigger kick from that, then find it's even more edgy with younger victims, and there you go. You can interactively participate in sexual acts online, from straightforward dirty talk with a woman to live sexual violence and live children Then you'll be offered the chance to try it for real.

Personal experience tells me the author of the Belgian article was right, too, about men being deliberately sucked in for reasons of business & political influence - the 'clubbable' aspect. Once you've got film of them getting out of their heads on illegal drugs and having violent sex with children, they're yours unless they're made of very strong moral fibre. They're in the club - and it gets more intense from there. I'm sure a lot of perpetrators must dissociate to a degree, or how can they live with themselves? The drugs will help with that: so will rituals wrapped around the exploitation, black magic or illuminati bollocks, to make them feel they're all part of some special system with superior powers & entitlements.

I'd love to know if participants' wives and children notice changes in them once they've entered this grotesque world. Some of the women, tragically, are part of it too (hello, Ghislaine,) and I know for certain many of the children become part of it, perforce.

Savile was a vicious sadist, by the way. The bastard even bragged about it in his biography. Other adults went along with it because of his influence. He quite rightly said no-one would listen if they told, anyway

That's spot on. It all starts when one person is served up for another's pleasure, then it escalates. When you look at how much misogyny and porn exists and is normalised in our society, condoned even, is it any wonder that powerful people push the boundaries more and more in their quest for the next thrill.

and now people think it's an issue confined to one culture. they don't realise how pernicious and far reaching all this is.

No people don't think its confined to one culture at all but with mass problems right now, of Asian men targeting white vulnerable girls, that's the specific area we must talk about.

The whole thing is a mass encompassing issue/crisis but the one thats rearing its head now, is the Asian one.

A lot of people I've heard talk about it think it really is just a problem with one community and a load of loony lefties who were afraid of being racist.

Re Garlics post - Sat 30-Aug-14 18:28:10. as well as porn escalation, the internet allows child rapists to normalise their behaviour because they can find other sick fuckers who think like they do. I would guess before the internet arrived, many would-be paedophiles kept their thoughts to themselves. Now, with many many other paedophiles to talk to online, they must all feel more normal/validated/justified.

I imagine child abuse has escalated vastly due to the arrival of the internet.

Simon Danczuk on the Wright Stuff tomorrow morning www.channel5.com/shows/the-wright-stuff/clips/coming-up-on-wednesday-3rd-september

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/2171233-Webchat-with-Tom-Watson-MP-Thursday-4-September-1-2pm

Garlic's link says that woman needs people to send her stamps.

Tom Watson Web chat! That's great!

Oh, well done, MN!

Long time lurker here:

See Lisa Nandy MP in the House of Commons questions on Rotherham this week questioned "whether [..an overarching inquiry..] would be capable of shining a light on abuse wherever it has occurred, including in this place."

I didn't really get this Garlic, 'Once you've got film of them getting out of their heads on illegal drugs and having violent sex with children, they're yours unless they're made of very strong moral fibre.' Which drugs would they have to be on that what get them so out of it that they would do this? I don't know any. People abuse because that's what they are, an abuser, not because they are lured into it. I think it's already in them.

Scandip, it is in each of us. Question is, what does it take for us to give it rein? I'm re-posting a quote from one of the Belgian X-witnesses:-

"There was a villa in which a room was set up with built-in cameras. Even in the 1970s these cameras were so discreet that only the people who maintained them and the child-prostitutes knew where they were located... Why did I had to get those guys clearly in the picture, why was I supposed to get them to hit me and brutally rape me? Why was 'regular' sex often not enough?... Blackmail, the word that was never mentioned, I only started to really understand when I was thirteen, fourteen years old..."

"Contracts between the business milieu and the political world, contracts between businessmen amongst each other, fraud with subsidies or licenses, setting up fake firms, criminal contracts like arms trade... everything was possible. ... The men were brought to ideas by child pornography movies that were played at parties... The pimps also had another tactic. They invited a person who could be useful to them. They went to dine with him, and took him - after he had been liquored up - to a 'party'. Men from the top layer of society are used to visiting or getting offered prostitutes. They usually knew that something like this would follow, and the prostitutes they would see upon entering would be slightly older girls, between 16 and 18 years old. More booze and cocaine would be supplied, for ambience. And only then the 'prey' would be taken to a room where a younger girl was waiting, like me, then."

"Most men probably realized only afterwards in what kind of hornet's nest they now found themselves, but by then it was far too late... Men were introduced to the network by colleagues, friends or family members. Carefully or slowly, or briskly after a party. Step by step customers, who first went to bed with me cautiously, were stimulated to rougher sex. I was forced to help them with that... They became complicit and at the same time their mutual connections became tighter. Not one of these people was still inclined to sign contracts with individuals outside the network. If that happened one could make them pay dearly for that..."

If your hangover cleared, with hideous memories of what you'd done the night before and knowledge that you were witnessed - and that your career, perhaps even your family's safety or your life, depended on your complicity ... well, it wouldn't be a straightforward choice.

Others, even without overt blackmail, would discover a vicious side to their sexuality, which they'd so far suppressed or ignored.

It isn't in each of us. That is nonsense. To say that we all have it in us to have violent sex with a child is ludicrous.

Cocaine and alcohol do not lead to people having sex with children. Whilst both may lower inhibitions and cocaine may increase feelings of confidence, it does not make people violent. It may alter behaviour to a certain extent, but acts of violence and abuse can be attributed wholely to the individual and not the drugs or alcohol.

Men are able to recognise what is a child when drunk or on cocaine. A sensible adult male can recognise a dodgy situation and will instantly be alarmed at what could be a 'grey' area and they will leave.

The victim didn't get them to hit her or be brutal toward her. If they did that after her suggestion, it was their choice and they were not coerced or led into such a situation.

Pornography cannot make someone have a taste for abusing children.

It is indeed a straightforward choice to abuse children, not something that is done because of the influence of alcohol, drugs or coercion or because the age of a child appeared to be indeterminate. Admittedly, these kind of excuses for abuse are frquently made and may be made in court, but to me they are nothing but appalling excuses for abhorrent behaviour.

I apologise. I believe nearly every human capable of the most horrific things, but that's an age-old philosophical matter and I shouldn't have stated it as a given. As to whether pornography can lead to participation: yes, it can & does, according to those who work in the field. I apologise. I believe nearly every human capable of the most horrific things, but that's an age-old philosophical matter and I shouldn't have stated it as a given. As to whether pornography can lead to participation: yes, it can & does, according to those who work in the field.

Sorry, my phone doesn't like posting on the mobile Mumsnet!

I don't believe everyone is capable of it, I believe those low on empathy are. Many of these individuals are high up in business/politics as our capitalist society rewards them

thedevil many abusers are those who have been abused themselves too.

I would rather cut my own throat than do any of these things to children, but if I was abused as a child, and thats the normal thing to do, maybe I would be a child abuser now?

I know its a generalistion but it is known SOME people who are abused go onto abuse.

Fiona Woolf to lead child abuse inquiry

thedevil many abusers are those who have been abused themselves too.
.... those low on empathy

Both, one might guess. It's widely supposed that early trauma (especially sexual abuse) provokes personality disorders in those with some sort of genetic predisposition.

It's good to hear May has appointed someone ; even better that Alexis Jay, who conducted the Rotherham inquiry's on board. She's evidently made of strong stuff: let's hope she's strong enough for Westminster!

She's evidently made of strong stuff: let's hope she's strong enough for Westminster!

If I was her I would be hiring my own protection team also.

I apologise as well Garlic. I think I get too emotional about this subject and I need to stop it. I am becoming obnoxious. I think that I don't know enough about pornography related to abuse, so I need to chill and stop being a know it all. I don't know why people do it. My apologies again.

Multiple personality disorder is related to sexual abuse, I did my dissertation on it. Strangely, it is a diagnosis mainly made in North America. It is related to dissociation and bears similarities to what Victorians called hysteria.

There may be other disorders related to abuse.

Anyway, hope this replacement is better than the last one.