The poor people in the 'plane, would they have suffered?

[hellymelly]

The news is so shocking, have avoided the tv news for days but read the papers today. Combined with the terrible images of injured children in Gaza it is all so upsetting. I can't help but think about the passengers in the downed airoplane, would they have been alive when they hit the ground? Or would they have passed out from lack of oxygen before then? I just hope that they knew nothing and were killed instantly but I realise that is probably unlikely. .

Phantom you're very wrong there.

I don't mind who agrees with me and who doesn't, truly.

I'm not saying you're making up PMs, I'm saying I'm just not interested. It wasn't snide, it was me saying what I think, if that's alright?

I will always think it's wrong to say that mothers of dead children are using those dead children to do things, whether it's win arguments, guilt-trip, or whatever else.

I'm really not fussed about what others think, I know that I am right on this.

Front

i understand what you are saying but what if quite a few of them are also saying they are disturbed by the cutting off of open conversation on here, don't want to post themselves but actually don't feel disrespected by this debate? Are we to ignore their points of view?

And I also told her in my PM that I thought popping up out of the blue on the thread to support her would be inflammatory and unhelpful to discussion, so I hoped she'd understand if I didn't.

But seeing as I've been accused of cowardice I don't give a shit.

Woah!

Been sitting on my hands for much of this thread because quite frankly the predictable backlash against what i would have posted in support of phantom's post just isnt worth it but now she is being called a LIAR? I PMed her to express my support for her post in private to avoid aforementioned backlash and really didnt intend to be drawn into the thread however i wont allow phantom to be called a liar if i can easily prove otherwise.

Corporate

It isn't just on this thread. There have been a LOT of issues. But I will, take it up with HQ as will other Mumsnetters. Let it be their problem.

I really am off now. Nothing more to say other than it has been an interesting debate and one worth having because this won't be the last time people want to discuss their feelings about death and tragedy and people are going to have to keep away from these threads and exercise some discernment.

well this thread has well and truly be derailed

agree with PhantomTollboothed

people want to discuss their feelings about death and tragedy

I agree.

I have a friend who has been recently bereaved. I'd never dream of having a discussion in front of her. I'd pick my moment/audience and be thoughtful to avoid being salacious. The internet makes that very difficult. Perhaps we'd be best talking about facilitating that?

Dia I think it's overstating things slightly to say people were scared of the 'backlash' when really only two people, me and Beer have been on the other side of the debate.

Phantom it is an interesting debate to have, I just wish we could have it in a thread unrelated to actual tragedies, and where people don't get told off for using their own experiences to shape their opinions.

I exercise discernment by not joining in chat about dead children's faces, that's the kind of discernment I think it would be lovely to exercise. (and no, I'm not saying you said that).

Front but, based on that argument, you're ok with discussing things on the internet, in front of the whole world? I don't understand that. Does that mean you can say what you want and as long as it's not to someone's face it can't hurt them?

Did i say people were scared of the backlash? I dont think i did.

Oh for goodness sake, did I forget to copy your exact wording? Is that the most important thing about my post? Could you not come up with a better response to my question?

based on that argument, you're ok with discussing things on the internet, in front of the whole world? I don't understand that. Does that mean you can say what you want and as long as it's not to someone's face it can't hurt them?

I'm on the internet so I'm obviously ok with internet discussion

I do think some things are better not said in front of certain people because of their situation and I'm not talking about people behind their backs here. What I mean is a sensitive topic to someone who is sensitised

I'm a bit sensitive to one situation at the moment. Those of my friends that know would probably not have a discussion in front of me. Won't stop the situation causing me pain but will stop me having it picked over in a way which doesn't afford me either dignity or acknowledge my own pain rather than an abstract version

The internet does not allow that sort or consideration for an individual.

Corporate not that you didnt copy my exact words, you added some that werent even close to what my post said. I said nothing about scared and nothing about 'people' so your post saying i was 'overstating' things is irrelevant because it was making a point about something that didnt actually happen.

Yes beertricks, predictable and backlash. Not anything to worry about, nor anything to want to invite on myself. So i avoided but of course the calls of liar made it difficult for me to continue to avoid it. Well done, you have achieved you aim.

No, you're right, the internet, as a technology, does not allow that sort of consideration.

But given that we're talking about people-generated content, perhaps people could allow for that sort of consideration?

Dia what is the point of picking apart wording, when we're trying to discuss something of real interest? It's pointless and boring.

I am, however, very sorry for the errant use of the word 'people'

I agree Corporate that people should do that. I don't think that means no discussion. I think it means a more appropriate phrasing, more sensitive and careful etc.

It's incredibly easy to read things into a post that are not meant. Great care is need when discussing topics like this

I wasnt picking apart wording. Your post had no relevance to my comment because it was saying something completely different to what i said. How can i answer a post that is referring to something i never said?

You said i was overstating slightly to say people were scared. Well how can i respond to that except to say that i didnt say people were scared? So clearly i cant have eem over stating.

I PM'd Phantom too and I don't think her post should have been deleted either.

Far too many threads on are completely derailed and then deleted as bunfights because people come on them, not to disagree, but to disagree that the discussion should even occur.

This is not an AIBU thread. It was not started as a debate, the OP asked a question.

People can come on the thread to answer the question.

If people feel that such a question is unsuitable to be asked on Mumsnet, they can ask Mumsnet to pull the thread.

Surely that would be far more straightforward then coming on the thread and insulting (rather unpleasantly) the OP and anyone else who wanted to discuss this?