The poor people in the 'plane, would they have suffered?

[hellymelly]

The news is so shocking, have avoided the tv news for days but read the papers today. Combined with the terrible images of injured children in Gaza it is all so upsetting. I can't help but think about the passengers in the downed airoplane, would they have been alive when they hit the ground? Or would they have passed out from lack of oxygen before then? I just hope that they knew nothing and were killed instantly but I realise that is probably unlikely. .

What I mean is yes, you eventually have to learn to bypass things that are overtly triggering. If not, you will go mad and I speak from personal experience here. Plenty of people on this thread, active and lurking have lost children, lost others close to them traumatically and WE don't go shutting down the conversation by calling people ghouls.

Do our 'rights' trump the 'rights' to not discuss these things? No. So we all have to learn to keep off upsetting threads (for us) and not try to drive them away.

Asking for posts that are not abusive to be deleted is censorship especially when my inbox is full of MNers saying that HQ and the reporters are out of line.

My comment was perfectly reasonable.

Well, maybe you don't feel that way, maybe others do.

I do think that's a slightly separate issue to the existence of the thread itself though, and some of the details in it.

And, also, if you feel that people are using their own (horrific) experiences to make people feel uncomfortable about talking about certain things, wouldn't it just be generally kind and nice to not call them out on it in public? Just let them say what they think and do your own thing?

I don't watch the TV news when events like this are on. I stick to the radio and can recommend it as a good way of refining what pops into your home.

As somebody who can be disturbed for months by some images (that baby elephant being brought down by two lions was featured on Gogglebox to my horror and I raced to switch it off- has haunted me for ages since) I have to be wary of what i watch and when. I don't watch nature TV any more as I have become such a wuss.

I mean this post sincerely and not as a way of point scoring- I do recommend it for those of you who struggle at the moment with all the terrible news.

Well maybe that's an undiagnosed and new phenomena Beer, courtesy of the internet age.
God help us all.

I didn't report it saying it was abusive, I reported it saying I felt it was insensitive to suggest that someone was using their deceased child to shut down conversation. If MN deleted it, it must have been breaking some guideline or other. But as long as you have PMs supporting you, then that's lovely.

Beer I agree, it seems a bit cowardly to me.

Corporate

The issue I called her out on has been getting more and more prevalent and something needed to be said- i am not the only person on the thread saying the same. When other bereaved people are shut down from speaking because of it, we'll end up in a pissing competition as to whose loss is worse. Nor should bereaved people be able to behave in any manner they like. Yes I know some allowances have to be made for reactions. Yes I know sometimes we have to be laissez faire but at what point do we say 'enough this is unfair' especially when PMs are deemed not appropriate. I would consider it very bad mannered to PM somebody to complain to them and it'd risk looking cowardly. This way it is above board and I take the consequences.

Beer

No quite a few have posted on here too. Most of them actually and many wanted to talk about their own losses that they don't want made public.

Still calling them cowards?

I can almost see both sides here.
The reporting has been awful but that shouldn't stop other people talking about it and how it makes them feel.
And I really do hate disaster movies and anything violent.
They are ghoulish to me but I know people still watch, and presumably enjoy them.
I don't like the name calling, I don't think what's been talked about here is ghoulish or grief touristy.

Phantom when it comes to when it is suitable to call out mothers of dead children and claim they're using them for their own ends, I have say that I think the only good time, is never.

Think people are cowards for not wanting to state on here that they too have lost children and agree with me and other posters?

HQ will see how many PMs I have had. So no need to lie as they would know I am.

I thought the post that was deleted was a bit out of order tbh. It wasn't necessarily a personal attack but I didn't feel Expat was trying to shut the discussion down. She was simply stating her opinion.

But in the end that's just my opinion of course.

It was me, I said it seemed cowardly to PM support for someone but not say it openly on a thread.

re they afraid to post on the thread, Phantom. I'm always a bit suss when people start shrieking about how full their Inboxes are of people who agree with them

*I agree it seems a bit cowardly to me (By another poster)

I think we all know what you meant. And commenting on what you said is not goady.

Phantom, I don't give a shit about how many PMs, etc. It's nothing to do with what I'm saying.

Asking if they are afraid? Charming.

Corp

Then if you do not care about that argument, why post a snide comment about their being cowardly. You just cannot bear that a lot of people do not agree with you. Making comments about people being afraid to post and insinuating (both of you) that i am making up the number of PMs I have had shows that you clearly do care about that argument.

Hands up. I PMed phantom because I don't think her post should have been deleted and agreed that the deletion made her look abusive. She was not. That's my opinion.

I've never been afraid to post, and I'm not a coward. My reason for not posting on the thread until now was because I was lurking (ghoul that I am) and was concerned that if I suddenly posted my support she might get accused of doing a shout-out to her mates.

Not that we're mates. I don't think I've ever noticed her - sorry, about that phantom.

But since we're nudging close to suggesting that phantom is lying about receiving PMs - that's quite unpleasant behaviour IMO - I'd just like to assure anyone who's wondering that she's not. At least in my case.

Maybe we're just appealing for sensitivity and human decency?

This.

And to each other.

Stop arguing about personal tragedies. Just stop. Take ten minutes out and then think about whether airing your viewpoint trumps the fact that decency and sensitivity to lots of bereaved and grieving is being ignored here by that arguing