A Malaysian plane has been shot down in the Ukraine.

[WeAreEternal]

The flight mh17 from Amsterdam to kuala lumpor with 295 people on board, it was a boing 777.
It was shot down with a buk ground to air missile.
They say there are no survivors.

It's awful.

I'm sure that just about all the local people will be heartbroken at what's happened and will want to help if they can.

Nearly all of them will just be normal people who live there.

It seems that Sikorski may be being sidelined a bit due to Russian pressure, so maybe he won't get the EU High Commissioner for Foreign Affairs job. There was also that leaked phone call of his. Not sure who leaked it, but it can't have done him any favours

"Poland's diminished role is in part a result of Russian demands. The new formula for negotiating Ukraine is a four-country grouping consisting of France, Germany, Russia and Ukraine, where Poland's overt scepticism of Russia has no place. “Poland was pushed aside,” says a Polish diplomat. Marcin Zaborowski, head of the Polish Institute for International Affairs, a foreign policy think-tank, adds, “France and Germany are interested in de-escalating and Poland causes problems with this.”

www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2014/07/polish-politics

It looks like the socialists are backing Mogherini for the job. Some hawks will not be pleased about that, if it happens.

"Mogherini, 41, is front-runner for the foreign policy post, although Poland and Baltic states have misgivings about her suitability, seeing her as inexperienced and too soft on Russia in the Ukraine crisis."

www.euractiv.com/sections/eu-elections-2014/socialists-back-mogherini-eu-foreign-affairs-chief-303508

I agree goats about the childrens' belongings :(

No Belloc, I am not with RT. I used to watch their news shows, but have stopped as they've been recently started to reflect Russian policy, whereas before they were pretty neutral. One of their London based reporters has resigned for the same reason. Just because I don't parrot the official US line I'm used to being called a stooge, but that's the job of the astroturfer, to shout down anybody who dares to go against the official narrative. Two of their shows I still watch are Breaking The Set and Keiser Report. You might remember Breaking The Set's presenter Abby Martin making worldwide headlines for having a pop at Putin for Russian action in Crimea,

France24 is reporting that Sergei Lavrov has said crash investigators must have access to the site and the flight recorders must be handed over to them. They're also reporting 250 killed by shelling in Lugansk.

I'm surprised relatives aren't turning up to the site. If one of my kids had been in that crash - I'd be there striding across and those grumpy rebels wouldn't put me off. They could bloody shoot me. Where's the anger??

Well, maybe they are still getting visas Animation. It's not that easy and straightforward, and visas for that part of the world can be a bit time consuming to get. Then landing in Kiev. Hiring a car and possibly a driver. Finding your way to a small village in the middle of a war zone. Might take a few days.

Malaysian air said they would try and get the families there though I think- is that right?

From what I understand the parents were not even able to talk to their relatives, much less sort out visa, flights etc. The grief has most likely floored them.

I expect it would floor me too.

Animation, investigators haven't been allowed proper access- who do you think is going to take family into a conflict zone at the moment?

I found your post nasty.

Animation, how would it help bereaved children if their grandparents also got shot - or more likely thrown into custody for having incorrect papers or stranded nowhere near the crash site as no driver will take them into a war zone.

The whole thing stinks, I read on pprune that america have the signature for the buk that was used then a buk missing a missile was seen being taken back across the border... soundslike that will be destroyed

it doesn't seem like many are getting angry, from photo's on twitter there is mostly journalists there. I think the UN need to be sending over a bunch of soldiers with independent specialists to be cordoning off the site and getting some answers.

I read a local gave an interview about hearing and explosion followed by a ladies body crashing through the roof of her house.

so many families have been affected by this, the very least they deserve is peace about what happened.

If putin is to blame directly or indirectly he needs to be held accountable regardless of starting a war or obama shaking in his boots if allowed to continue what is next?

I imagine Putin will do all within his power to prevent UN or EU having unfettered access to the site, or independent investigators.

Meanwhile evidence is being tidied away by the Russian forces and their associates.

You should be ashamed of that post Animation.

this makes interesting reading...
If you read wiki on Ihor Kolomoisky it shed's a different light on who could be responsible.

Just read a report in the independent, the reporter had to go through six checkpoints on his way to the site.

Ihor Kolomoisky.

Of course there is anger, huge anger. It is nothing to do with me whatsoever and yet I feel massive rage at those poor families not being able to access the bodies of their families. It is utterly inhumane to leave bodies by the roadside and for all and sundry to be picking their way through those bodies and belongings.

That said R4 now just reporting that groups of volunteers are combing through the fields of crops searching for bodies and of course the images of the village ladies and children laying flowers yesterday show us a different side to the story.

We mustn't forget the villagers that will be affected forever by what happened - thinking back to Lockerbie - no different really.

Those bodies need to be repatriated with dignity as soon as possible although god only knows how that will happen as time passes .

I was thinking about the locals and what a deeply traumatic event this will be for them. I wonder what support will be available to them afterwards.

Russia Today reported that Russian forces had NOT taken up positions in Crimea. Russia lied. Russia Today lied. Russia tells lies all the time, has no respect for truth or the rule of law. Putin is a violent thug who thinks nothing of feeding his citizens on a diet of propaganda.

Russia Today is a disgusting broadcasting channel.

Animation, when a family member died in Iraq, the first thing I wanted to do was get on a plane to Kuwait and drive or find a driver myself just to be with him. There was a delay in repatriating him and I just wanted to be close to him so he wasn't alone but it just wasn't possible.

This is a war zone. Very dangerous. It just won't be possible to book a flight and be there.

Although there aren't that many rebels at the crash site (which is large). Apparently there are a series of separatist-guarded oadblocks on all roads leading to the crash site.

"You should be ashamed of that post Animation."

Don't be so silly. I'm talking from a parents point of view. Those bloody rebels stood there with guns in hand - who do they think they are!!
I'd be fucking furious if my loved ones had been shot down - as I'm sure are all the relatives of the bereaved - and nothing would stop me getting to that site. If they shot me then fine - but I'd have no fear of them.
These rebels are standing around like thugs all powerful and oppressive - they wouldn't scare me [anger]

Ah yes, you are the only one here who has that special insight into a parents point of view.

You have no idea.