A Malaysian plane has been shot down in the Ukraine.

[WeAreEternal]

The flight mh17 from Amsterdam to kuala lumpor with 295 people on board, it was a boing 777.
It was shot down with a buk ground to air missile.
They say there are no survivors.

It's awful.

KnockmeDown - it's tragic. My dsis actually works at PHF in one of their residential units in Newcastle - I'm not sure if the child is in her care at her unit as I've not spoken to her for a few days.

I'm trying to avoid the news today, other than a quick check to see if there was any new info, it's just heartbreaking.

Oh knock - it just gets sadder and sadder

I think this disaster strikes a chord because it's just so close to home with the holidays and that being a popular route.
my thought are with the families, what a horrendous time.

The thought of that child being at school dealing with the fact both parents and siblings have died has really upset me.

I watched BBC news at 10 last night expecting it would be okay, but they showed people's bodies, so I turned it off. I find it so disrespectful, they should blur/pixelate at the very least.

I can see today's flight MH17 flying now (on flightradar24) over Germany. Strange feeling. But a kind of a positive one actually. Wonder how many people are taking it today.

I'm finding reports of how the bodies/remains are being treated very distressing. I dread to think how relatives must feel. The way the site is being dealt with is a travesty.

It's a disgrace.

These poor people. The dead ones and the relatives.

It's an affront to human decency. These people (the rebels restricting access and possibly desecrating the site) clearly have no shame or respect. Surely even in a developing nation they would allow investors to access the site and take care of the dead. This is a disgrace.

Brian, it is Ukrainian authorities who have been removing body parts and it is the Ukrainian government who has accused the rebels of doing so. Sky has been changing their earlier reports which seem to have been more in line with the Ukrainian governemnt statements than what is happening.

"The Ukraine government said "terrorists, with the help of Russia, are trying to destroy evidence of international crimes", adding it had obtained data which showed bodies had been taken to a morgue in Donetsk.

However, Sky's Chief Correspondent Stuart Ramsay, at the scene, said there were reports rebels had moved bodies on Friday, but body parts were now officially being removed by Ukraine emergency ministry staff ."

news.sky.com/story/1303759/britain-warns-putin-worlds-eyes-are-on-you

Me too Stealth :(
I just txt Dsis and (quite rightly so) she can't comment on it, other to say that it's sadly true.
All staff have been sworn to secrecy regarding the child as they don't want reporters turning up.

rumours are circulating on the web that MH17 could be Mh370

Just shows how gullible and desperate for conspiracy theories certain people are, eh.

How ? And what happened to this plane then ?

There is also stuff about the Ukrainian Government's youtube video of the separatists concerning the date when it was made

Find myself thinking there are a lot of similarities to Lockerbie. Bodies in fields, being blown out of the sky, etc. Horrifying. My kids just flew home from SE Asia a week ago. I'm so grateful they are safe.

Very impressed with Sky's Chief Correspondent Stuart Ramsay. He is really excellent and not afraid to tell it how it is. He is on the ground and has refuted quite a lot of the rumours in saying that he has not seen some of what is being suggested and he doesn't know where this info is coming from.

Claig, why do you refuse to believe anything negative about the Russian separatists?

Stuart Ramsey said "we are in a propaganda war" and it is not surprising what the different sides are saying about each other. The separatists may have shot the plane down, we will have to wait and see what evidence there is for that. But if you look at the statements of the Ukrainian Government, Yats and Poroschenko and compare them to what has been reported of what the separatists have said, then you have to draw your own conclusions about what is more likely.

I tend to agree with former US Presidential candidate, Ron Paul, who said we must find out what happened before making accusations.

"The Texas Republican said that the fact that Russians may have provided the weapons to the Ukrainian rebels is not enough to put the blame on the Russian president.

"That may well be true, but guess what, ISIS has a lot of American weapons," he said. "We sent weapons into Syria to help the rebels and al-Qaida ends up getting it — it doesn't mean that our American government and Obama deliberately wanted ISIS to get American weapons."

"So who gets the weapons is a big difference between how they got them and what happened and what the motivations were," Paul added. "So even if it was a Russian weapon — doesn't mean a lot."

The former Texas congressman says that he does find it "interesting the way the flight was changed — make it land in Russia and it would have been a greater detriment to the Russians and the Cold War could be resumed."

Paul contends that "there's a lot of people itching for the Cold War and they don't want to do anything to even talk with the Russians."

...

Paul says that we should approach the situation with the downed Malaysian jet "cautiously."

"Under these circumstances, it's very difficult to get the real information so everybody's angling to propagandize and make their position known," he said.

"It'd be unwise to say, well, the Russians did it, or the Ukrainian government did it, or the rebels did it."

www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Ron-Paul-Putin-Malaysian-flight/2014/07/18/id/583590#ixzz37w0P1SYy

here Pro Russian rebel leader says some of the bodies seemed to have been dead before the crash...

On the subject of heavy weapons supplied by Russia magically turning up in the pro-Russian separatists

We remember how, when Russian forces invaded and occupied Crimea, they were at first observed to be wearing Russian uniforms with the badges taken off, carrying Russian-issue weapons, and using Russian vehicles with the insignia taken off. At the time, Putin and his acolytes (including some on here) maintained that these organised professional soldiers were local residents who had bought their uniforms and weapons in a local Crimean Uniforms and Weapons shop. I don't think anybody still attempts to maintain that fiction.

Diesal, er, you chose to believe that? A few people in the comments section said it was Mh370. I assume as a joke.

Claig, yeah I agree we need to wait and see - however, the evidence is pointing one way, I'm sure you'd agree. It's what happens next that is important. I agree with a pp who suggested giving Putin some wriggle room - backing this mad dog into a corner would be a mistake.

I thought the resignation of the Russian journalist was interesting - I didn't realise Putin's control of the media was so absolute.

WetAugust said

"You can forget the EU taking any action as Russia as Mrs Merkel will not want to jeopardise Germany's large Russian export market and Europe is also reliant on Russian gas supplies."

Everything now depends on what Merkel does. The US wants the EU to increase sanctions on Russia, and up too now many European countries have not been strong enough. Hawks are saying that more help needs to be given to the Ukrainian government by EU countries and there are calls on Putin to cut any aid to the rebels.Hilary was interviewed and said that EU countries need to start lessening their dependence on Russian gas or oil etc.

Merkel will be under great pressure to do all of these. Depending on what she does, will depend on whether we go back to a sort of Cold War scenario.

I don't know what Merkel will do, but I think she may not go along fully.

Cathy Ashton is standing down as EU and we have recently heard in the news that the hawks in the EU don't want the Italian Foreign Minister, Federica Mogherini, to get teh job as they think she is too soft on Russia.

The Polish hawk, Radek Sikorski, is being talked up. He is a Bullingdon Club member and Oxford graduate and there is a good chance that he might get the job because Merkel is going to have to placate the hawks if she tries to hold out and maintain good relations with Putin.

It will be interesting to see who gets that job. If it is Mogherini, then that will be significant regatding he EU's future policy towards Russia.

As usual, Farage is not a hawk, but what he says does not really count in Europe yet.

"The loss of almost 300 innocent people has sent shockwaves around the world.

Everybody is touched by this total disaster and questions mount as to who is responsible and what the consequences will be.

But we must take stock.

Already hundreds have lost their lives as a direct result of the ongoing conflict in the Ukraine.

Now, hundreds more, merely innocent passers-by, have also fallen victim to a situation that continues to escalate.

What we absolutely don't want to now see is this tragic mass loss of life being exploited as an excuse to slaughter many more."

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/486303/Farage-of-Friday-Nigel-Farage-on-flight-MH17-disaster

I was wondering how many posts on a thread we could get through without mention Farage...

...as if the conspiracy nonsense isn't bad enough.

Shame.

'however, the evidence is pointing one way, I'm sure you'd agree.'

I don't agree. How many BUK systems do the separatists have? Is there any evidence they have any?

On Radio 4 Today's programme, a Ukrainian official said the other day that they have none. We know that the Ukrainian military and the Russian military do have them.

Most experts agree that the separatists do not have the skills to fire a BUK missile and Putin is unlikely to hand over such a system to rebels whom some of our tabloids call "drunks". So that means that it would have to be a Russian military officer who fired it, if it came from the Russian separatist side. But I find it unlikely that any Russian military officer would do so. We can see what the implications are - a new Cold War type scenario with more sanctions on Russia etc.

We know that in 2001, the Ukrainians admitted that their military shot down a Russian airliner flying over Ukraine by mistake.

Can we stop with the 'hawk' shit please...