Oscar Pistorius trial part 4

[Pennies]

Here you go.

Stack Bullets travel faster than sound usually.

Even more sad is that she clearly did register what had happened to her because she went to protect her head. I hope she died thinking she had been shot by intruders, not her boyfriend.

onestep I feel the same way. RS silent on her way to the loo, silent in loo when being told to "get the fuck out of my house" and silent when she was shot. And her written words that live on incriminating Oscar are exaggerations.

She's was definitely silenced in the end.

Pennies I'm 100% sure she knew she was being shot by Oscar - regardless of who's version you believe.

Stack thanks indeed for all those links.

upnorthfeline as far as the texts, I just don't get it. They'd only been going out 3 months, I would expect it all to be hearts and flowers at that honeymoon stage of a relationship, as opposed to arguments and disputes. To me those texts look like they are both covering up what could well be a not so happy relationship that might well not have lasted.

Who dropped Reeva's mobile in the toilet? Were the calls recoverable from it?

She has no voice now, and we are being led to believe that she said nothing, made no noise, so silent during the minutes before her killing. This has nothing to do with the trial at all, but I find that so hard.

yes I find this extremely upsetting too.

It is like she is voiceless, non-confronting, quiet and ultimately disposable. OP won't even say that he is responsible for her death. Who is then? Who?

And although her complete and total silence through these proceedings may be possible, I find it unbelievable.

I think that Nel is exceptionally good at what he does so while we may well sit and watch it and think "surely he's twisting that", he does it in such a way that it is totally within the boundaries of what's allowed.

I think OneStep that no scream could be as loud as gunshots in those particular circumstances.

Did we ever find out if Netcare had recordings of the call for an ambulance? Who told OP to take her to hospital.

First rule of seriously wounded, do not move, unless leaving them in that position could cause further harm.

I know Louise, it's more the case of Reeva being silent yet again.

I've never been shot, so I couldn't say if I'd scream or not tbh.

her screams wouldn't need to be as loud as gunshots - just louder than any "ringing" in his ears for OP to hear.

And loud enough for neighbours to hear? If they could hear shouting voices and shots then they could hear screams.

Delurking to say that I am surprised at the naivete about personality disorders shown on here and the lack of connection made between Pistorius' "illogical lying" ("If it was me lying, I wouldn't lie like that"), the high incidence of male to female domestic violence in South Africa and the fact that those who have NPD are MASTERS at convincing most outsiders that they are brilliant. Notice, I said "brilliant". Narcissists do not deal with half measures or "normality". That is why Oscar Pistorius seemingly turns on the emotion when put in a corner and why he can follow a "script" to a tee. However since narcissists are never the brightest sparks in the box, they seemingly never know when they have "won" and when to stop over egging the pudding (hence the qualms of some who say that "if he was lying, why are the lies so illogical?"). Narcissists know which audience that they are playing to. In this case oscar Pistorius knows that rightly or wrongly, there are going to be people who over empathise with him what with him being a "hero" who ran and won races without having legs below the knee. He knows that in our politically correct times, people associate disability with "goodness" and "potential prejudice against". Never underestimate how zeitgeist aware a narcissist is.
Even if there was point blank evidence suggesting Pistorius' intention as to why he shot Reeva , he would still play to the gallery. It's their worship, whether he is right or wrong that he wants. Even though he despises those same people at the same time (for being empathetic, for being foolish enough to have such a horrible person up as a "role model").
One big psychological factor of a narcissist ( and nobody has picked up on this) is that their inconsistency is the consistency. Once you get your head around that, it is quite easy to come to the conclusion that he is a murderer who had intent.
He is a lucky man that narcissism is worshipped nowadays, whilst not being recognised (in a mainstream way) as the disorder that it is (I am not talking about Narcissistic Traits) and that public shaming has gone the way of personal responsibility (which is weird if one doesn't accept responsibility, how can they be punished and rehabilitated? Not saying that"shaming" is good, but the alternative "lovingly doing nothing" seems bizarre).
I will not be surprised if he gets off. Lots of people don't want their dream killed. I'm just glad that deep down, he hates himself more than he hates those around him. I hope he does the right thing.

agree onestep its the silence that gets me too, i'm sure she would have said something, offered to move the fans herself, he's confirmed she was awake. The bit of his story which doesn't make sense is he's struggling with the fans and she is just listening to this. He'd be huffing and puffing away, you'd get up to help wouldn't you, not just quietly sneak off to the loo. Where she manages to flush the toilet silently so not to alert OP she's there but then opens the window. I have no idea if SA toilets are anything like UK ones but the flush last a while as does the cistern refilling.

Hmm, well the expert testimony so far has been that she very much would have screamed, hasn't it? I don't think it's right for any of us to extrapolate how we think we might respond to a gunshot wound - assuming none of us have been shot.

I do know that the one time in my life that I have been in extreme, what felt like mortal pain that I couldn't cope with, I screamed loudly, desperately, and without cessation until the pain went away.

Re her "silence", unfortunately this is what happens in murder cases. It has been said that the case is "all about OP" and Reeva has been forgotten but again that is what happens in murder cases because we have to learn about the accused and his/her (alleged) motivation.

So many times, the victim is just a cypher and isn't presented as a real person at all. I'm not for one moment saying that it's right by the way it most certianly is not, but sadly it's all too common.

Did we ever find out about the lost pass code for the apple iphone and if they were able to get into it?

Glad I took the time to read that stoosh.
He hasn't pulled the wool over my eyes either.

Made me feel quite sick listening to his snivelling, it's all about him...

The bit of his story which doesn't make sense is he's struggling with the fans and she is just listening to this.
YY but she is doing more than listening - she is getting up and silently, in the pitch dark, walking to the toilet - while deliberately NOT helping him.
There are lots of things about this scenario that don't make sense.

Sorry, massively X-posted there, that was in response to Pennies et al from a few posts back.

Totally agree BeCool.

"Hmm, well the expert testimony so far has been that she very much would have screamed, hasn't it?"

Yes, screamed and gasped and moaned and slumped to the floor with a thud I'm sure.

Good post stooshe.

I have been shot - at close range, but it was only an air gun so in no way compares to this. If it had got me in the eye I would have lost the sight in it.

I had some mega bruising. I can't remember if I screamed but certainly there was no blood - it was 30 years ago. I do recall being quite vocal afterwards to the person who shot me!

I do regret now that I didn't go to the police.

really interesting stooshe

I've felt the whole way through this that these threads need to be read hand in hand with those on the Relationships board. I think the judge must have knowledge about exactly what people are capable of.

I hope he does the right thing.

What right thing are you hoping for?

be cool, I just feel if it was an argument bad enough to result in the death of RS there would have been furniture knocked over, things broken in the room. Something to indicate a very heated argument occurred. It is the crux of the prosecutions case. This is just something that I feel was not really proven.