Oscar Pistorius trial part 4

[Pennies]

Here you go.

Thanks Godot.
I think along similar ways too but I think more because it was a new relationship rather than ego.

I thought I'd read somewhere that there were condoms on the bedside drawers? I find the whole idea that they were asleep by 10 (not going to bed at 10, but actually asleep) very strange.

My real suspicion and obviously only speculation is that this is like a couple of other crimes. I think the end result is one which the accused/ suspect is innocent of but that they have fudged the truth to present themselves in a better light.
So - MMcann, parents innocent but I suspect they weren't totally honest about the checking etc making all of it look suspicious.
Meredith Kerchet, suspect Knox knows more but is innocent of killing her.
Reeva - suspect neither state nor OP version accurate but somewhere I between and OP has told some truths and some lies but absolutely did not intend to murder her at any point.

I thought Alex Crawford's tweet was quite interesting something along the lines of - Defence witness 1 (Botha) agreed with Prosecution on 4 out of 5 points (the time of Reeva eating being the area of disagreement), Defence witness 3 (Dixon) testimony pretty much destroyed and agrees with Prosecution about the siting of the magazine rack.

No - the report belongs to OP and he cannot be compelled to use it (and provide copies to the prosecution etc) unless he wishes to

The only time he could be is if it was a joint report - i.e. both the prosecution and defence had instructed it.

Further, even if OP used the report (I.e. If it were favourable) the court couldn't attach much weight to it if the author doesn't turn up to testify and be cross examined. Basically anyone could have written it

It's the same with witnesses who provide witness statements but won't turn up to testify - pretty useless

On another point, I think the going to bed early thing isn't that strange. If he had been training hard all week, he would probably be knackered at night. Plus he was obviously an early to bed early to rise person. I know a couple of healthy young men who are in bed by 9pm.

Armchair that's just what I said, more or less.

Also, if you look at the other witnesses, they all seem to turn in between 9 and 10. Seems normal there?

AmIthat Springy Sorry if I'm repeating stuff you said up thread- haven't had time to read it all- but glad you agree

Not at all Armchair, I didn't mean it in a proprietorial way, sorry if it came across like that. I just meant that I too was glad someone else had picked up the same thing

I know Springy

Just watching Mr Dixon perform on Sky- it's cringe making

Thanks Gobbolino for the info about the report.

Me too armchair, the look on Neil's face is priceless

I agree with you, SirChenjin. The being asleep at 10 pm does not ring true. Why do we assume only Reeva ate at 1 pm? We know her stomach contents because of the autopsy. But did she and OP eat together then. This would tie in with the argument heard by the neighbours and OP's phone being active at that time.

It would be strange to eat alone at 1 am while your boyfriend slept but not so strange to eat together.

Hillwalker why does it not ring true? OP had started his season's training. All the neighbours who have given evidence so far are saying they're in bed between 9 and 10.

And the argument was heard by only one neighbour. And she didn't know who/where, etc

But the neighbours are not young and in anew relationship. I think we are taking at face value OP's description of the evening when the autopsy tells a different tale.

In South Africa people tend to start work and school an hour earlier than we do, so it's the equivalent of someone being asleep at 11

eh Hillwalker, what different tale? Do you mean the food?

"But the neighbours are not young and in anew relationship"

And if they'd have had sex I'm sure the defence would have mentioned it as evidence of their loving relationship. I know they are respecting Reeva's privacy by not going into the intimate details of their relationship but if it was evidence they were deeply in love I'm sure they would have mentioned it. Which makes me think OP is telling the truth about that part of the evening.

Yes, the timing of the meal. Because Reeva died, her stomach contents were examined and showed she ate at about 1 am. OP did not die so his stomach contents were never examined. Had they been, they may well have shown he also ate at 1 am. There is no proof they ate and went to sleep as he describes. He's lied about so much, after all.

If OP truly does have a narcissistic personality or is a big egotist or whatever, is it just possible that when he heard what he thought was an intruder, his only thought in those initial moments was for himself.

I've thought this for a while. Whatever else we know or don't know about that evening, we certainly know that he did not thoroughly check for Reeva before discharging his weapon.

The patio doors were closed, the bedroom door was locked (allegedly). It was a smallish pair of rooms. I cannot think of any excuse why he did not get verbal confirmation before shooting.

His excuse that he was so scared about the intruder doesn't wash for me. He was in the room long enough to get all around the bed, and get his gun. In that time, he did not get verbal confirmation. He spoke to her, but didn't insist on a response.

I don't live in a gun culture (thank God), but I understood that to be pretty basic. You check where people you don't want to shoot are before you shoot.

I also believe, but this is just belief rather than knowing for sure, that she screamed, and it took him a couple of seconds to process it was her. He heard a scream, continued shooting, then stopped a second or two later.

I believe (just believe) that by the time he'd got onto the bed and was looking for her, he had a fairly good idea that the scream he heard matched hers.

That's the very least I think. I'm waiting to see whether the defence has any actual defence against the people who heard the argument first.

On the small and big lies...

I think the end result is one which the accused/ suspect is innocent of but that they have fudged the truth to present themselves in a better light.

Yes, I agree here. I'm pretty convinced that he shot his gun through the sunroof of the car, and that he was the one who shot in the restaurant. If he lied about those things, it makes him into a liar (in my eyes). It's important because, once again, he didn't really know who that bullet might hit. They don't dissolve when they reach altitude. If he shot up into the air, the bullet will go, well, up, into the air. Then they start falling, and though they don't hit bullet-speed again, the can still do a fair amount of damage if you happen to be walking beneath.

(My dad was it by a falling apple which had been lobbed up high into the air. That was a hand throw and a relatively soft item and it still left quite a mark. We didn't laugh. Oh no, not at all.)

It is currently an hour past my bedtime. I'm not young and newly in love though, so I get a pass.

but the food means nothing, surely. In OP's version, he woke and Reeva was still awake. There is nothing to say she didn't go downstairs a couple of hours earlier and pick at food.

And she had been in his house alone, so I am pretty sure she would have been able to press a button to disarm an alarm.

I'm just not seeing the food thing as such a big deal, TBH