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Oscar Pistorius trial part 4

987 replies

Pennies · 15/04/2014 09:53

Here you go.

OP posts:
ZuluinJozi · 17/04/2014 03:53

No, I meant ignore previous earlier post of the the two I post. I just woke up and clearly clicked on post message before I completed what I wanted to say

celestialsquirrels · 17/04/2014 07:22

I know it was defence I just got confused in the heat of typing!!!

shoppingbagsundereyes · 17/04/2014 08:02

Definitely seems to me that the reason he has useless 'experts' is because no one decent will support pistorius' account of what happened that night.

LookingThroughTheFog · 17/04/2014 08:08

If he was "expert" enough for them to use, he should be "expert" enough for the defence here.

Louise, from what I could tell, Nel only really tore at the 'expert' moniker when Dixon started to describe himself as a 'layman'. Other than that, his main questioning were to do with the specific tests that he did. Would an 'expert' measure light with no light metre, would an 'expert' deduce that the fibres came from the sock or would they test the ruddy sock.

It seems the tactics Nel uses to cross examine people gets those results. whether they know something or not. I believe he could get his mother to say she wasn't his mother even if she was holding a DNA certificate in her hand that proved it. He has mastered the art of arguing but I wonder if he is really getting to the truth of the case. After Mr. Dixon had his time on the stand I would say it shows OP isn't the only one capable of being totally turned up side down by him

I disagree with this too. Remember both lawyers have the job to do this. Roux desperately tried to get the Berger to say her and her husband's witness statements were compared and adjusted to suit each other. He was equally as doggish about this, asking that same question 6 times until the judge pointed out that she'd answered 6 times now.

I think Dixon got so horribly savaged because he didn't do his initial job well enough in the first place. If he were able to say 'I used a light reading, and the reading was X, and the usual scale for an average person to see silhouettes in the room is Y...' but he couldn't do that.

Not being able to get the Black Talon bullets for example - how hard did he try, because Sky got them in 24 hours.

It's not the man Nel is attacking - it's the work, which was sloppy.

Does anyone know what it was in the post mortem report and photographs that surprised Dixon so much?

Emotionsecho, please note I only think I've got this right, because there was stuff in the room while I was listening, and I'm not a forensic expert.

Dixon claimed that the bruise on Reeva's buttock, the one that was not shown on the screen for her dignity, was caused when she fell onto the magazine rack.

Prosecution say that this bruise was caused by the damage to the inside. That it was discolouration from the bullet that passed through her hip.

Dixon maintained it was a bruise from the outside, and he'd looked at the photos and found it.

What he apparently missed was the fact that the prosecution pathologist had dissected the whole of her buttock, so was able to categorically state that the bullet caused the discolouration, because he found bullet fragments there. Or something along those lines.

Dixon was surprised by that paragraph, as if he'd read it for the first time that day.

What is difficult for the Defence is that then he says he read the post mortum report a long time ago. However, he's been refining his report for the prosecution since.

So what he's saying is that not only was he prepared to state his opinion without having attended the autopsy, which in itself isn't too problematic, but then he refined his report without constantly double checking the report.

Which does, as you say, beg the question about why they put him on the stand in the first place.

LookingThroughTheFog · 17/04/2014 08:13

Can I just say, that the thing that pisses me off so much about Dixon, is that we're looking for justice for Reeva. That's what both sides ought to be about - proving the truth, because we need the truth for her sake. We don't necessarily need a conviction for Pistorius if (IF!) his version is the truth - we just need that truth, clearly and categorically.

For me, that's why it's horrifying that the defence put this clown on the stand. He made a mockery of all the tests.

Once again, Reeva Steenkamp isn't considered important enough for a thorough job.

That's sickening.

OneStepCloser · 17/04/2014 08:17

Gobbolin thank for answer my question yesterday, (your posts today have had me giggling this morning, nothing to do with the trial, just your quips Smile was out all yesterday to sounds as though I missed the mauling of Dixon, but sounds so cringy it might be a good thing.

Why on earth would Roux have used him, it beggars belief really.

JillJ72 · 17/04/2014 08:20

^ makes me wonder if this is quite "normal" stuff, and it's quite shocking at how lacking it all is because we would (naturally imo) expect real rigour and robustness to the process.

  • can't remember
  • didn't read their affidavit
  • hadn't re-read the report before going on the stand
  • hadn't tested properly
  • had moved things around, touched things with bare hands
  • didn't think to test or try

You're right, Looking, how can you get reconciliation when there's such a lack of attention to detail! to basics.

Or are we expecting too much?

(I don't think so)

Hillwalker · 17/04/2014 08:31

In the adversarial system, the aim is not to find the truth, though, is it? The aim is to get your client acquitted or to get the defendant found guilty.

JillJ72 · 17/04/2014 08:32

... going to be away with DH strimming and me digging the allotment today (hurrah - day off work and DS doing sports things) so hopefully catch up later. Guessing we'll be on part 5.

Hopefully today's session will be solid for the Steenkamp (and Pistorius) family - so there's confidence in the information being delivered.

Roussette · 17/04/2014 08:32

Agree Looking - it's almost as if the OP camp thought they could walk it. I was reading online about how much money the Pistorius family have thrown at the defence of OP. Huge huge amounts - why didn't they fly in the best in the world as far as Forensics if they were so sure of his innocence? They have had a year to do this - maybe if they came from another country they would have to jump through hoops to take on the work, but I read somewhere that they could have chosen anyone from anywhere but decided to go for homegrown expertise. I think that decision has come back and bitten them where it hurts. I just wonder why they chose him - I think he was a 'yes' man who was prepared to say what they wanted.

Mr. Dixon was not an expert in ballistics, not in light, not in sound, not in blood spatter evidence and did not read the post mortem report properly. And when they tried to record the recreated sounds they used a retired music producer who had never heard a gun fired before.

Hillwalker · 17/04/2014 08:37

Rouses tote, I think it is telling that the Pistorius family could not secure the services of anyone better. Maybe no one else was prepared to say what they wanted.

Hillwalker · 17/04/2014 08:38

Roussette. Sorry.

Roussette · 17/04/2014 08:42

I don't mind being Rouses Tote hehe! Yes, it does make me think that. Roux is the top defence lawyer apparently, why didn't they hire the top Forensics person. I understand that there isn't the expertise in SA apparently but it does seem strange. Mr. Dixon stood up to Nell well considering but it was painfully obvious he shouldn't have been put forward to do this. His expertise seemed to be just his eyes and ears.

BMW6 · 17/04/2014 08:44

As someone else posted above, looks very much like after a year of preparation, the only "expert" they could find who was prepared to back up the defence was the hapless Roger Dixon............

Says a LOT for the defence's case IMO

BMW6 · 17/04/2014 08:47

Judge ticking off the Public Gallery for inappropriate behaviour.

POD (poor old Dixon) up again - I'd have pulled a sickie.................

Will be watching through my fingers..................

Roussette · 17/04/2014 08:49

Grin BMW - pulled a sickie - I am laughing here which seems a tad inappropriate, but I am lacking sleep and we al need a wry smile here and there with this case.

MILdesperandum · 17/04/2014 08:53

Can someone link to where I can watch online please?

member · 17/04/2014 08:54

It's pitiful, surprised the judge hasn't thrown him out for contempt;

no report, a handful of notes (nicely typed about the door though!)

eyes as instruments

evidential photos left at home

making "expert" pronouncements based on photos

LookingThroughTheFog · 17/04/2014 08:54

the aim is not to find the truth, though, is it? The aim is to get your client acquitted or to get the defendant found guilty.

Yes and no. There's no point having a guilty or innocent verdict if it's not so watertight as to allow for an appeal, surely.

JillJ72 · 17/04/2014 08:57

Andre Harding article - www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27033180

HowAboutNo · 17/04/2014 09:00

Just seen something Dixon posted on his fb page. Maybe the problem is you're not up to the job pal? Agree with a PP, it's not fair on Reeva. Do a good job or just don't bother, this isn't about HIS integrity, it's about justice for Reeva.

Oscar Pistorius trial part 4
Oscar Pistorius trial part 4
JillJ72 · 17/04/2014 09:03

See, I think that is totally unprofessional!! Maybe it's ok over there to do that, but I think when you're in court you don't go talking about it on the www. Fresco did the same.

Ugh. Glad I am in the UK (do peeps do that here too??!).

HowAboutNo · 17/04/2014 09:05

It is unprofessional, and damn stupid. I'm sure you cannot be allowed to comment on proceedings when you're part of them in this country, surely?!

member · 17/04/2014 09:05

I think this Dixon guy was more or less a whistle blower during the trial of the boyfriend, Fred, of murder victim Inge Lotz.

Police claimed to have lifted fingerprints from a DVD rented shortly before Inge's death which placed Fred at the scene. Dixon exposed that the prints were lifted from a glass, not the dvd cover, which could have been touched by Fred at any time.

Fred was found not guilty & went on to sue the police for fabricating evidence. Not sure when Dixon left the police forensic service but think discrediting state evidence made it difficult/impossible for him to continue work there.