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Oscar Pistorius trial part 3

999 replies

JillJ72 · 12/04/2014 19:08

Hiya,

Thread 1 here - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2022610-Oscar-Pistorius-trial

Thread 2 here - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2049921-Oscar-Pistorius-trial-part-2

To continue our respectful, open, interesting discussion.

OP posts:
FreeLikeABird · 14/04/2014 11:42

AmI - thank you that's right about MB, that's what I was thinking of.

SauceForTheGander · 14/04/2014 11:42

I think his priority is his career, his sponsorships, his image and it was a great time for him. It must be incredibly hard to say goodbye to that. He'd worked so hard for it and I can well believe that he did not intend to kill Reeva. I think he knew it was her but shot at the door after an angry argument. Because he knows it was an accident I think he's been able to assuage his guilt and now believe his own lie.

I think he does feel bad but he also thinks - it was an accident, I don't deserve to lose everything for an accident - it's not going to bring Reeva back - what's the point of both our lives being ruined.

GladitsnotJustMe · 14/04/2014 11:46

I think you're right Sauce

And he foolishly believed he could argue his way out of it.

He would have been far better off to admit some of it, and get off with a lesser charge. but maybe he was too blinkered / immature to see that. Perhaps he thought that with enough money, his defence team could put together a watertight case.

ballsballsballs · 14/04/2014 11:47

I find the fact he changed aim chilling.

StackALee · 14/04/2014 11:48

The fact is, for Reeva to get into that toilet, she would have had to either open the door then close it, or it was open already so she just had to close it... then lock it.

Yet he just heard the one slam.

unless what he thought was the window was actually her opening it, then the slam was her shutting it.

AnyaKnowIt · 14/04/2014 11:50

Wow bad luck for op, guns going off in his hands and now more witnesses are lying

FrontierPsychiatrist · 14/04/2014 11:50

AmI, I don't know if that ever happens (that the defendant blurts out a confession) apart from on telly.

It's inserting to follow the effect of Nel's questioning on OP's mental state.

Re: the smiling photos, I think some photographers are probably getting paid a mint to provide photos like that. I really try not to let them cloud my judgement. After all, in any grieving process it's normal to smile at certain moments, it doesn't imply that you're not grieving.

A good while back a previous poster mentioned that it was virtually impossible for OP to behave in the correct manner. I don't agree with this, they are norms of behaviour even for a case as bizarre as this. If you look at as a man accused of murdering a loved one by accident and leave aside the intruder defence and the defendants physical disability, then yes you can extrapolate what is a normal response in a scientific manner. That is the basis of forensic psychology.

Lunchtime for me. I must say, it's a pleasure to have such a civilised discussion about this. Yay for us!

Animation · 14/04/2014 11:50

It may have been part 'accident' in his mind if he only wanted to scare Reeva with that 1st shot. She will have screamed out though when he shot her hip and maybe he felt he had no choice to finish her off .. for a couple of reasons - to put her out of her misery and to avoid getting arrested.

LookingThroughTheFog · 14/04/2014 11:53

I'm really glad NEL came back to the LED today.

I haven't been following the case at all, until someone pointed me at the previous thread, and there was suddenly a calm, reasonable place to read about it. I then went back and read the reports of each day in the trial, and the LED display leapt out for me (along with a couple of other things).

My problem with the LED display is that according to OPs story, he and Ms Steenkamp went to bed together. He went to sleep first, with the LED uncovered, the widows open, and the fan on. It's not clear what Ms Steenkamp did at this point, but she had not settled down to sleep - if she had, surely he would have taken the fans in then. So what was she doing? Sitting still in the dark? If she was intending to stay awake, was she perhaps reading on her phone or something like that? This is speculation, of course, but it doesn't seem plausible that she just lay there in the darkness.

So he slept through the fans, the LED, whatever Ms Steenkamp was doing, and her getting up and going to get something to eat at 1:00.

But suddenly, at 4, when he's woken, the LED needs covering.

It might be that because he'd woken then, and already slept for a while, he might have needed more darkness, but he doesn't say that. He says he covered it before he even tried to sleep with it on.

So what was the purpose of him covering it?

To my mind, the only reason for him to say he tried to cover it, was because he needed to explain how covered, the bedroom was in such pitch blackness, there's no way he could have seen Ms Steenkamp in bed.

It's interesting to me that there is an alternative offered today; that Ms Steenkamp might have been dressing to leave. It's actually made me feel more on the fence than I was before.

I think there are many, massive holes in his story, and this bothers me. The thing is, I'm not sure I can honestly state that I think this is because he intended to shoot and kill Ms Steenkamp. I think it's more because he seems to lie as regularly as I breathe. That seems to be his instinct - if in doubt, lie, and he's in a lot of doubt.

GladitsnotJustMe · 14/04/2014 11:55

Agreed it's great to have a good discussion about this without it descending into hysteria.

My personal belief of his motives was that he either shot out in rage, or tried to shoot the lock off the door.

I didn't want to think that he deliberately shot at her to kill - but that evidence of the change in aim is unsettling.

Nerf · 14/04/2014 11:57

I can't see massive holes in his story, I can see a confused emotional and quick set of events that are hard to recall exactly months on. Also if someone questions your recollection you question yourself. Plus you are going to think before answering because you know that the wording of your answer will be picked over in minute detail.
I don't know what I think. My first marriage ended due to dv, but I have no alarm bells going off here.

FrontierPsychiatrist · 14/04/2014 11:58

Exactly Stack, you put it much more succinctly than I did.

He's in a right mess in the stand right now. He changed his aim to where he heard noise after the first shot. After this I am convinced that at least from this point on he shot with intent to kill.

BookABooSue · 14/04/2014 11:59

I find the fact he changed aim chilling
Ballsballs me too. That seemed pretty damning.

StackALee · 14/04/2014 11:59

Nel "why did you stop?"

OP "I don't remember"

OP "I'm not sure m'lady"

and on and on

SauceForTheGander · 14/04/2014 12:00

animation yes Sad

StackALee · 14/04/2014 12:01

he has all this reasoned thought 'if I fire into the shower it might come back and hit me' yet can't remember anything important.

this gets worse and worse.

voiceofgodot · 14/04/2014 12:01

Glad Why isn't Roux standing up for him? Is this normal? Or has Roux given up on him?!

From what I've read, this is normal for SA. Because of the lack of jury, counsel are not having to taper their 'performance' accordingly (ie. they are also having to appeal to the jury and wanting to be liked a bit more). Cross-examination in SA is therefore more 'brutal'. Roux knows that he can only object on points of law.

SauceForTheGander · 14/04/2014 12:02

Starting to think it's impossible to prove he knew it was Reeva in there - but likely that they will prove he shot with intention to kill.

msrisotto · 14/04/2014 12:04

I've only just started watching this and wow - Nel is good. Pistorius is not coming off well, which is Nel's job I suppose. At least he's making it quite clear that in order to believe Oscar's stories, we have to accept a lot of tall stories.

GladitsnotJustMe · 14/04/2014 12:05

Thanks for explaining that Voice just seems odd. There have been a number of times that OP has picked out issues with Nel e.g. referring to the Stipps' evidence, OP pointed out that they are two separate people with separate statements.

It's points like that that I would have expected Roux to have jumped in and made for him. Seems odd for OP to be doing it himself.

I don't really think that Roux has given up on him, but it does make me wonder whether Roux is thinking "well we've given our advice (to admit some of the charges), he's ignoring us, so its his own lookout"... I dunno, probably unlikely.

BookABooSue · 14/04/2014 12:05

"why did you stop?"
I wonder if he could hear Reeva screaming? Otherwise it is a bit of a co-incidence that he stopped firing after she stopped screaming. Maybe that's why he thought Reeva was dead when he first went into the toilet too.

ballsballsballs · 14/04/2014 12:07

I thought he might have stopped after she stopped screaming, because he realised then she was dead. Either way it's hideous.

LookingThroughTheFog · 14/04/2014 12:08

Oh, the other thing I wondered about with the screaming - the witnesses who say that there was defiantly a end of a scream after the last shot - is it possible that a scream carries differently than a gunshot?

I don't know - it's a genuine question.

MajesticWhine · 14/04/2014 12:18

Gerrie Nel is a mumsnetter.

OneStepCloser · 14/04/2014 12:19

I was wondering that Majestic Smile