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News

Oscar Pistorius trial part 3

999 replies

JillJ72 · 12/04/2014 19:08

Hiya,

Thread 1 here - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2022610-Oscar-Pistorius-trial

Thread 2 here - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2049921-Oscar-Pistorius-trial-part-2

To continue our respectful, open, interesting discussion.

OP posts:
GladitsnotJustMe · 14/04/2014 11:13

Barry Bateman ?@barrybateman 6m
#OscarTrial Pistorius appears to be vomiting. His psychologist is speaking to him as he leans over in the box.

Does anyone wonder how long this will go on before they decide he's not fit to stand in the box?

FreeLikeABird · 14/04/2014 11:20

Just a slight side track but it's annoying me, why is that Mark Batchelor sitting in the gallery, he is annoying me, the man is a fame hungry thug!

HowAboutNo · 14/04/2014 11:22

Roux is wrong to object to Nel here I think

AmIthatSpringy · 14/04/2014 11:22

free. Is he really there? Thug for hire. Maybe that's why OP is focussing on 'M'lady.

PD6966 · 14/04/2014 11:22

I feel this is a significant point in the trial. This link posted yesterday on this thread and posted just now on the BBC news site, is invaluable in understanding OP's current predicament.
criminallawza.net/2014/04/13/pistoriuss-new-defence/

Roussette · 14/04/2014 11:23

I think the defence (i.e. Roux) are getting increasingly desperate (now disputiing Nel's line of questioning which the Judge has no problem with) . This is awful isn't it - at times I feel rather ghoulish, I really do.

AnyaKnowIt · 14/04/2014 11:24

Who is mark bachelor?

BeCool · 14/04/2014 11:24

I'm having a memory/reasoning blip - why would you have fans on OUTSIDE when it is hot INSIDE?

I'm sure this must have all been explained before now, but I can't recall the details.

Roussette · 14/04/2014 11:25

PD I think that link explains it very wel - he is between and rock and a hard pace and if this case was cut and dried (for him) in that he was telling the truth, his defence wouldn't change

HowAboutNo · 14/04/2014 11:26

Agreed roussette

GladitsnotJustMe · 14/04/2014 11:26

As a total aside - how utterly excruciatingly difficult must it be, to sit in the dock, being quizzed on every tiny minute detail of - what I believe - a complete fabrication.

The pressure must be immense.

I don't feel sympathy for him though. He would have had my sympathy if he had been honest that it was an argument that went badly wrong.

But god it must be difficult for him right now.

HowAboutNo · 14/04/2014 11:27

Out of interest, what was the reason for televising the trial?

GladitsnotJustMe · 14/04/2014 11:29

Nel asking him now "Why did you never say I am armed, I'm going to shoot". Surely this is what you would say.

The reason is that if he claims to have said this, obvious next question would be "Why didn't Reeva then shout out that it was her in the bathroom"

He has constructed such an impossible story that he can't even claim normal responses because they will harm his defence.

FrontierPsychiatrist · 14/04/2014 11:29

Re: the witnesses that said they heard arguing around 2am, maybe they heard noisy, aggressive sex? Could that explain male and female voices, crying out? Not for help surely, but could have been mistaken for distress?

Does it really make a difference whether he whispered or spoke in a low tone? Or is Nel simply highlighting more inconsistencies in an attempt to discredit and unsettle OP?

Also, I'm confused about the marks not he bedroom door. Is it being suggested that the cricket bat was used on the bedroom door also? Surely not, because that would be absolutely damning.

Interesting what previous posters Ronald and Glad up thread said about Get out of my fucking house - In my opinion his emotional response to repeating those words was very significant.

Allthree, I don't think the emotion is put on. I do think he is genuinely very distressed. I don't know that the cause of his distress is because he is innocent and accused, or because he is guilty.

In my opinion, an innocent person will maintain their innocence in a consistently highly emotional manner, a guilty person would at times become overcome by intermittent ego-dystonic memories of the event that break through the lies. In this case, as I have mentioned, get the fuck out of my house and I wish she had said something really strike a chord with me. Clearly not enough to convict, but enough to start wondering...

Assuming for a moment that he is guilty, he has had a year to assimilate and mentally integrate his version with his personality and his beliefs, by denial or other defence mechanisms. However, the enormity of what he has done in killing another person, would be very hard to repress successfully. I think that successful repression would be contingent on a previously disordered personality. Assuming that beforehand he was normal (a dick maybe, but normal), and is now lying about his version it must be possible to trigger an outburst or a response that implicates him.

Going back to the use of plastic bags in resus, that sounds infinitely bizarre to me, but often you just grab what is to hand and I don't think it has bearing on the case.

Whether or not he thought about the damage the bullets would do through a door is irrelevant imo, didn't he have training in the use of his gun and was aware of the damage that bullets cause to humans? He cannot claim responsibility for firing the gun but claim to not know that bullets cause metal injuries, even through a door.

I'll admit, I'm quite dubious as to the veracity of OP's version. However, we shall see.

Will an innocent verdict affect behaviour of other men in RSA? Will it set a precedent for killing intruders, and partners?

StackALee · 14/04/2014 11:30

I am sure that he is very upset that Reeva is dead but he is equally upset by the idea that he might go to jail for murder.

FreeLikeABird · 14/04/2014 11:31

Yes he's there he was there on another day too, he is the man who was brought up when oscar met up with someone at a location, I can't remember the details if someone can help please do, it was said OP threatened to break his legs.
He is an ex footballer you can't miss him the camera keeps going on him, big bloke with highlighted blonde hair.

GladitsnotJustMe · 14/04/2014 11:35

Interesting assessment Frontier I agree with you.

he is equally upset by the idea that he might go to jail for murder

Agreed. I just don't understand why he didn't go for a lesser charge, admit being reckless with his gun, but deny that he intended to shoot her.

Surely that's the best option here. I think he's being utterly foolish to pursue this defence.

FreeLikeABird · 14/04/2014 11:37

The plastic bag and rope etc the lady who I believe was the Mr and Mrs stander who turned up on the scene first, asked if he had anything like rope plastic bags etc OP replied anything he had would be in the pantry where he kept everything like household items etc, she wanted them to help stop the bleeding.

GladitsnotJustMe · 14/04/2014 11:38

I think Nel has nailed him.

He's showing that OP changed his aim once he knew exactly where RS fell....

Animation · 14/04/2014 11:38

"It is probable that OP used the cricket bat earlier in the event. I believe that when she locked herself in the toilet he tried to break the door with the bat and being unsuccessful he fetched his gun and shot her through the door. This version fits the witness testimonies more closely."

Yes this seems more and more likely to me.

I wonder if the shouting for 'help' he did at the time suggests a combination of mocking Reeva, and trying to out smart her, and with the intruder theory simultaneously coming into his mind - in it's early stages. And I believe he was fuming ..probably due to some narcissistic/pride injury.

AmIthatSpringy · 14/04/2014 11:38

In OP's evidence I think he said that Batchelor had been paid by van den burgh (sp) to intimidate his friend. Certainly he was the one who claimed that OP threatened to break his legs. He is an ex footballer who was sacked from a tv show after being found guilty of assault. By all accounts a nasty piece of work. Bbc interviewed him for a programme they made on the case and he came across as being a bit of a Neanderthal

No idea why he would be there.

AmIthatSpringy · 14/04/2014 11:39

Frontier. Thank you for your thought provoking post.

Do you think that if he is lying, Nel's questioning will make him blurt it out?

FreeLikeABird · 14/04/2014 11:40

He is just denying everything, it's doing him no favours, he can tell the truth, he seems so scared about every word he uses, he is thinking of all the implications of each word he uses that he seems to be altering his own truth.
At the end of the day, he pulled the trigger, he shot and he killed Reeva, weather intentional or by accident, he fired through that closed door not knowing who was behind it.

GladitsnotJustMe · 14/04/2014 11:42

Can I ask a question of usual court proceedings?

On TV, usually the defence lawyer is jumping up and down objecting here and there, correcting etc etc. Mr Roux is almost silent - even when OP himself points out inconsistencies with Nel's evidence, or when he says "we've already covered this M'Lady"

Why isn't Roux standing up for him? Is this normal? Or has Roux given up on him?!