Oscar Pistorius trial part 2

[JillJ72]

To continue from previous thread

Ta

Here cat

www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-girlfriend-left-traumatised-1771045

I'm off to make dinner. We are nearly at the end of a thread. Hope to find you all when I get back

cat

a bit more detail here

My God. If OP knew how terrified she was of being attacked and the fact she had run and hid in a bathroom before (he said so in the trial) why the hell didn't he double check where she was? That shows him in an awful light IMHO.

OK just to confirm- if they can't prove that he deliberately killed Reeva can he is still be convinced of premeditated murder for shooting to kill a person through a locked door?

I remember reading that the legal definition of premeditation in SA doesn't involve months of planning- that arming yourself and shooting multiple times through a door to a tiny room could constitute premeditation.
Or is it culpable homicide?

It seems to me there is no way he can escape that charge even if the judge believes he honestly thought Reeva was an intruder.

It keeps coming back to the same issue, which I'm sure (if he shot her by accident), must make him feel like the world's biggest dickhead:

He didn't ensure her safety

And that is really sad. She said she loved him and so she would have trusted him to keep her safe.

Sorry, can someone confirm, I thought OP did not need to be proven to have murdered Reeva that night, he had to be proven to have murdered whoever was behind that door?

I just feel we are all at sixes and sevens over Reeva, and I can see that its hard to prove that she was an intended target, so would be hard to show guilty beyond doubt, but is the lack/lapse of security showing that he was not particulary vulnerable and scared and his attitude with guns therefore shows intent of killing whoever was behind that door? Isnt this what the judge will be looking for?

My head is somewhat mashed with it all now I`ll admit, I was quite clear what I thought at the start but this lovely thread has had me thinking outside of my own box - which is good.

Oops I seemed to have asked the same question as anonacfr

The thing is, OP doesn't have to have a history of abusive behaviour towards his girlfriends for it to be possible that he flipped out the night he killed Reeva. It may not have been premeditated in any way but an escalation of stuff over the course of the one night, a very bad argument where a man with a gun acted like a complete idiot and killed someone.

Sorry, more thoughts, ignore if wished

I was pondering over Nels prosecution and wondering why he wasnt asking questions like we have chatted and debated on here, and I presume it is because he doesnt have to prove that Reeva was the intended target to get a murder conviction, he just needs to prove that OP shot through that door knowing he would kill whoever was there, with no solid reason.

I clicked on your second link Amithat and it led to another article where June Steenkamp was saying Reeva had told her she and Oscar were arguing a lot and that it was unusual for Reeva to argue with people. That article then led to one where her previous boyfriend was saying they'd met for a coffee a couple of days before the shooting and Oscar had phoned twice during their meeting. I'd forgotten about that

Nels arguement is that you can't be vunerable then go on the attack which Oscar did. It's one or the other.

I am reserving judgement but so far, on the evidence presented, it sounds like there was an argument and he lost control and shot her knowing she was there.

Of course it's in his best interests to stick to the intruder story and hope that it's not considered murder.

Ok but can he be convicted of murder for killing an intruder or just culpable homicide?

It is definitely relevant that Reeva went out with friends the day of the murder. Maybe he was suspicious and jealous about that and that's what they argued about.

I am glad the prosecution has got to the 'what happened at the moment you pulled the trigger' bit because it not only reminds us of how an innocent person was gunned down but also brings the focus back to what an absolutely over the top reaction it was by OP. hopefully some of the people defending him as a nice handsome athlete guy, and so on, will be brought back to reality a bit.

You can be handsome and nice and disabled and still be totally and inappropriately out of control.

StackALee, I agree. The thought of him stalking up the corridor with a gun in his hand shooting to kill is dreadful, especially when there were other options that would have kept Reeva (if he actually did think it was a burglar) and indeed him, safe.

Stack what friends did she go out with on 13 Feb? I thought she was at his house doing laundry?

These are the articles i came across when I clicked on AmIThat's link

www.express.co.uk/news/world/404554/Reeva-Steenkamp-was-so-afraid-of-Oscar-Pistorius-claim-her-grieving-parents

In the documentary Pistorius Trial: The Key Questions on Channel 5 Mrs Steenkamp reveals: “She said, they were fighting a lot. And this was a very new relationship. Very early to be fighting a lot.

“She didn’t elaborate on what they were fighting about.
But she said, ‘We, we are fighting a lot’. That’s what she said. Which is unusual for Reeva. There were no fights with (ex-boyfriend) Warren ever. Or anybody else. Or, or, even... personal fights maybe with friends and things, she didn’t... wasn’t one for fighting. But she said, they were fighting a lot.”

www.express.co.uk/news/world/383531/Reeva-met-former-lover-before-Pistorius-shot-her

She was interrupted twice by phone calls from Blade Runner Pistorius during her brief meeting with ex-boyfriend Warren Lahoud.

Businessman Mr Lahoud said yesterday: “I asked her, ‘Is everything OK? I mean he’s phoned twice already’.

“She said ‘There’s nothing wrong’.” Fewer than two days later, Ms Steenkamp, 29, was shot by Pistorius

Have we considered the lost his rag because she locked herself in the toilet and didn't come out option.
Kicked the door a few times getting more and more irate
Shouting at her to get out of his house
Get out of my house
She threatened him with the police maybe the press
He shot the door in anger and utterly without rationality to break the lock and get her out
Didn't think that the rounds would hit her but would stop in the thick door

Everything else has been hastily constructed since then to try to cover the rather sad and stupid truth

Sorry, I may be wrong. I thought he'd said in his testimony that they had both gone out with their own friends but perhaps it was 12th?

I'll start a part 3 thread.

I watched an interesting documentary about Oscar; I'll try and find it. It gives a bit of insight into his regime, close family ties, and his relationship with Vicky Miles.

I shouldn't say this - perusing FB as you so, there are distinct Reeva pro / con Oscar friends camps, as seen from friends lists, although there are a number that overlap the two. Vicky is on Oscar's list, if you like, but not on friends lists for Reeva.

I think some of Sam's bitterness could be linked to how the relationship reportedly ended, and maybe also that Oscar moved on (with Reeva).

Lots of speculating there. I'll start a new thread.

Ronald that was exactly my thought, especially when OP said in evidence (my paraphrase) if only she'd come out.

Aventurine, that is fascinating, and I would have thought very relevant to the prosecution case. I'm surprised it wasn't presented as evidence.