Oscar Pistorius trial part 2

[JillJ72]

To continue from previous thread

My point exactly.

If you were that worried, your apartment would be tight as a drum with regard to security. It wasn't. He perhaps thought he didn't need to. He had lethal weapons to fire.

I think it's easier to justify the paranoia on the night itself because of lax security yes, as it would be more feasible to assume that there was an intruder.

Can more general paranoia before the night be justified given the poor security not having been fixed yet, I don't know.

Interesting article here about black talons

blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/black-talons-heart-pistorius-trial/7405

Reeva will be portrayed as vulnerable for the simple fact the he had a gun, and obviously she didn't, and was killed. The passiveness point...I get that. Thinking of my own experience - which I am not saying applies here, but could have done. I am passive as in easygoing and avoid conflict but also am a loud and gobby so and so that can hold my own if push comes so shove. My EA ex didn't take kindly to me speaking back to him or shouting back to him and would up the ante then. He shoved me or threatened to 'punch me in the face'. I have fled on one of those occasions ( we didn't live together, and it depended on if his keys were lying around, sometimes I wasn't allowed to leave, and if I could get a cab. He lived in a shit area and I had to balance the risk of waiting in the house with him or going outside in the dark at 2am and waiting there) and never told my friends about those incidents until after we finally broke up. But that's just my experience.

I would also like someone to explain his fear, and I am open to hearing the rationality. For me, an intruder can come in and steal my belongings. I would think I would lie still while my laptop and stuff were swiped. If this had been a high profile family that had been kidnap targets a la the Beckhams, I think I could get my head around the intruder theory a bit more. Otherwise I'm just feeling it's a getorfmoiland mentality from someone who couldn't wait to use a gun. I also think that a true gun enthusiast should understand the responsibility that owning one brings.

I'll put my hands up and say that I do hope that he is conviced of murder. Going to confront a so called attacker armed then firing a gun in such an enclosed space can't be nothing but murder.

He had a chance to escape with reeva to safety. But no, he went on the attack.

That's not to say I want him to suffer in prison, just serve his time

Sabrina It's why OP says in his evidence that he shouted and screamed at the 'intruder' when going down the hall.

Did he say that only after hearing the witness statements that claimed to hear the arguing? I'm amazed btw at the number of people who heard it from over 150m away, and at that time of night.

Just a thought, but if he was making it up, does anything think there could have been a far more convincing way of doing so and therefore IF he was making it up he would have chosen that rather than a story which presupposes that he didn't see her in bed as he brushed past that very same bed? In other words, does the sheer implausibility of his version possibly in a way lend it credibility?

Anya - I agree with you. I think a good outcome for this trial would be for him to be convicted (I think it'll be culpable homicide and a sentence of say 6 years) and for him to show some humility that this is the right outcome.

Article in the New Yorker

Also wanted to flag up that it's interesting that she only texted her 'Jo'burg family' to tell them she wouldn't be coming home that night at 10-10.30pm. Didn't he say they were already in bed by then? Why would she wait until that point to tell them she wasn't coming home if according to him they had decided that much earlier? More random thoughts...

Six years? I'd be more satisfied with 25 but he'll not get that.

colin different views on levels of violence in SA, so some don't suffer and others do. Burglaries - depending on who and where, you may not just be burgee, you may be raped, shot, attacked.

Getting splinters too. Relying on the judge to decide.

Burgee. Ok, that's new. Burgled iPad, burgled. Thank you. Gosh, it's like being owned by a cat. Must proof read more first.

colincaterpillar re the paranoia: burglars here aren't just to get valuables and leave without anyone noticing. They (the burglars) wait until there is someone in the house. This is because there is usually a safe. And they want what's in the safe so you, the homeowner, has to provide the combination. They are also after guns and ammo. Home invaders are ruthless and will kill with no compunction.
The bedroom is usually the one area that isn't security protected by beams so that is the preferred entry point, if possible.

Pretoria - when I went to SA one of the first things I noticed about it were the massive signs outside every property warning burglars about their guard dogs and instant security call-out service. And that was in Cape Town, which I believe is meant to be relatively safe compared to other parts of SA.

Do we know the terms given out for culpable homicide?

So why didnt Reeva close the balcony doors? She turned the light off before going to sleep, if there is that much worry about security you would assume that would happen on instinct? And then why open a bathroom (not the toilet, where she was going) window with no bars in the middle of the night?

Re lack of evidence they had an argument, I'm trying to think what evidence of an argument people might see looking into My life. XP and I had plenty of arguments - there was very little "evidence" to be seen of these. What evidence is there of spoken words between 2 people in private?

We have seen evidence of Reeva calling him out on his behaviour after the event - when he was jealous, or spoke to her badly. But how much evidence of a verbal argument is there ever?

If they were arguing, Reeva might have wanted to leave, been upset with him but possibly she wasn't at all scared of him. She wouldn't expect him to loose it completely and shoot her. She could have locked herself in the loo just to get some space from him - as bedroom door was locked and alarm on.

Yeah, onestep 'Armed Response' is the main sign here, also dogs, high walls and sharp spiked fencing. Plus, security gates, electronic beams and so on.

Wrt the possible sentences, a law student friend says pre meditated murder holds a mandatory 25 years with no parole allowed. Culpable homicide is probably going to be 15 years, parole allowed, so she reckons he would do 7 and a half years.

Re lack of evidence they had an argument, I'm trying to think what evidence of an argument people might see looking into My life. XP and I had plenty of arguments - there was very little "evidence" to be seen of these. What evidence is there of spoken words between 2 people in private?

Very good point.

I think he is controlling and arrogant - my theory is this: They had an argument, she walked/stormed off and went to the loo and he, enraged by her having locked herself in, shouted at her to open it. When she refused, he tried to shoot the door open (hence bullet holes around the lock/handle). I think he didn't intend to kill her as such - which is why he almost believes his own lies about being innocent - but knew she was behind the door when he fired the shots.

The intruder story is clearly bullshit and none of what he says makes any sense. He, as others have said, is like a child who doesn't want to get into trouble, and can't admit to what really happened because he feels "he didn't mean to kill her" but is scared that that's not a good enough excuse and doesn't want to go to prison.

voice. I believe she phoned her friend's dad at 8.15ish, not 10. Her phone records bore that out too.

springing for what it's worth, I think you're spot on.

Just hope Mel breaks him & gets him to admit it... or the Judge comes to the same conclusion.

I think that Pistorius taking responsibility is an area that is terrible for the defence team.
Gun is fired by Pistorius in restaurant and he is furious with the other guy but not guilty himself. Pistorius pulled the trigger in a restaurant.

Left gun lying on seat of car and is furious when police man tells him off. What else would he do?

Two people lied about him angrily shooting through the sunroof. Independently lied.

The whole ammunition belonging to my father in my safe. Sounds like a crock. His father could easily admit this to be true.
His father was present in court on every day of his bail hearing.
Pistorius lied about having no contact.

If he was more truthful in these clear cut things then it would make it easier to believe him when things are a stretch.
He's harming himself

Yes he is doing a great job of representing himself as a person who doesn't own up to stuff. Guns randomly go off in his hands but he doesn't pull trigger being a known extreme example.

I am now clearly imagine him shouting "don't you dare turn your back on me/ walk away from me".