Gove wants private and state schools to be indistinguishable!

[rollonthesummer]

Roll on a class of 15; hurrah!

Did you miss the research I posted which showed that there's no link between funding and attainment?

The report states that there's a very weak correlation between levels of pupil funding in 2010 and KS4 educational outcomes (GCSE results) in maintained schools, in non-deprived areas, in 2010.

A-levels, in core subjects, are being dropped in FE collages because they're not viable (there aren't enough students opting to take them to make them cost effective). That could be solved by increasing funding so that colleges didn't have to make a choice between offering A-level maths to 9 students and starting a second Psychology group for the 50+ students that opted for psych.

Radio4's Any Answers (on youtube) has some comments on this this week which are quite interesting - on both sides of the debate.

Some things you can do without spending more money and others with not much more eg a compulsory longer school day, more classical music singing in parts and Latin in state primaries. That does not cost a penny, just a lot of effort and time.

How would a compulsory longer school day not cost a penny?

Not much more is the longer day - just some extra power to the building, electricity and put all new teachers for the same pay on longer hours.

put all new teachers for the same pay on longer hours.

Yeah, right...

There is nothing to stop the state doing so. There is no shortage of new teachers and plenty of private school teachers are at school until 5 or 6pm every night.

You haven't tried hiring a maths or physics teacher lately, have you, Laura?

The 1265 limit on directed hours? They'd have to completely dismantle the teachers' current pay and conditions.

I would like all schools and home schoolers to either have to follow the NC or not so all can be compared like for like.

plenty of private school teachers are at school until 5 or 6pm every night.

Most state school teachers are at school until 5 or 6pm each night, too. Planning and marking!

And what would Mr Gove like us to do with all the children who can't/ won't behave and, according to some of the well meant logic on this and similar threads, should be excluded?

What would he like us to do with all the children with AEN whom most private schools won't touch with a bargepole?

Because these children have a right to an excellent education too, and there are thousands of state school teachers striving to give them one. But these children simply won't fit in or cope with his master plan.

Why don't we copy the Finnish system and ban private schools. Trust our teachers. Invest in all areas of education, science, sports, arts... Remove the constant testing.

A friend of mine is now a head of a school in Canada. I peeked at their school website; they have a special section where they say, '75% of our teachers have a masters or doctorate'-they are really proud of having excellent educTed staff. Why is our government determined to have people with no qualifications?!! You pay peanuts etc etc

Hmm. If Asian schools are so great, why are our independents packed with Chinese & Indian DC I wonder? (grammars too - I have come across parents who have emigrated to get DC into state schools in the SE of England). What I hear from the DC and parents is that British schools teach independent thinking skills and encourage creativity - important for a highly skilled workforce and rapidly changing society.

The comparisons with Finland are daft ime. It's such a different society, much more homogeneous, with a considerably smaller population. I also understand that they do have private schools but for religious parents, SEN etc.

I was at Gove's ambition. The £6m a year in funding difference (for a secondary) must make some difference surely -- the main difference I see between DC from an independent and grammar/good comp is the social confidence. It also surely helps for careers in music, drama and sports to have a proper concert hall, theatre and decent sports facilities on site (do a quick survey of current top musicians both classical and pop, actors and Olympic medallists and you will see what I mean).

Yes some of that confidence comes from family factors but surely the well-maintained gardens, being taught in historic buildings and having an oil portrait in the front entrance of an ex-pupil who ruled India back in the day (or whatever) must have some subliminal effect -- essentially those DC are surrounded by subtle messages saying they are important, all day long.

Mind you ime independents could care less about heating and toilets -- at least our DC don't have to shiver in their coats and female staff don't have to trek miles down draughty corridors to find the appropriate loo!

Let's look to the long holidays of the independent sector; if that's what we must aspire to, then so be it.

Well given the answers on this thread it is no surprise more than half parents who can afford it pay to keep their children away from such teachers.

rollonthesummer

A friend of mine is now a head of a school in Canada. I peeked at their school website; they have a special section where they say, '75% of our teachers have a masters or doctorate'-they are really proud of having excellent educTed staff. Why is our government determined to have people with no qualifications?!! You pay peanuts etc etc

1. Teachers aren't paid peanuts.
2. Given the dismal standard of teaching despite having the professional qualification, I don't see how it's benefitting anyone except the unions.

rollonthesummer

Let's look to the long holidays of the independent sector; if that's what we must aspire to, then so be it.

And there, in a nutshell, is the problem with the state sector.

Most excellent Head Teachers do some class room teaching. In addition get around the school all the time being a continual presence. Good Headteachers know what's going on in their school and invariably support their hard working staff.
However, and this is the big 'but' very few HT's do any of this. As said previously most SMT's do not like to admit that they have 'discipline problems' in their school and often do not support their staff against the parents.
As shown on Tough Young Teachers on BBC 3 members of SMT sat in lessons and the bad behaviour continued pretty much oblivious to their presence.
First, inexperienced teachers should not be given difficult classes in their first two years.
Secondly, SMT need to sort out poor behaviour ruthlessly, supporting staff, drawing up binding contracts between parents, pupil and teacher as to their future behaviour.
Thirdly, local government boroughs and Central government need to support HT's and staff and not scandalously 'mock' teachers all the time as being 'useless'. N.B. David Starkey tried to teach History in a challenging school and was laughed out of the classroom by the pupils.
Fourthly, 'home-schooling' should be considered by more parents.
Fifthly, pupils excluded at an early age need to have one-to-one mentoring and tuition to overcome the problems of boys/pupils like Caleb on Tough Young teachers BBC 3.
Sixthly, all this costs money.
Seventhly, I would like to be Prime Minister :)
Cheers!

I've been reading this with interest.
My DC have finished their education thank god but it will effect my DGC.
A few thoughts spring to mind, I have knowledge of both state and indie schools with my DC.
Indies have schools pitched at different abilities...not all indies exclude more academic pupils. Smaller classes, focus on achieving, self belief even if you aren't the brightest. half the government - the 'its not cool to be clever' attitude is not so prevalent. Parental support, when you are paying fees you monitor progress more closely. Parents paying generally are motivated individuals who expect their DC to achieve in whatever they are good at.
They do have expectations on behaviour though and will remove any pupils who don't toe the line, it is the parents responsibility to find another school prepared to take DC.
Facilities do vary between indies...not all have 'more or better' than their state equivalent, particularly at Primary level.
The Indie day can be longer but in my experience covers more, academic/sport/arts/prep. When DC s school day is finished they aren't working on homework until bedtime! Schools that follow state style days have DC also loaded up with homework.
State schools have to contend with disengaged pupils they can't get rid of and have no fear of 'punishment' Goves 'picking up litter/lines etc will fall flat on its face with the first kid that says 'No, you can't make me'..what then?
They have DC with SEN that in the indie sector would be recommended to indie special schools that specialise in particular special needs..dyslexia, autism etc. Will Gove open a large number of these school to cater for these children.
So my conclusion is it is all hot air.

Some analysts think what Gove really wants is to be Leader of the Tory Party

And wouldn't that make the Trots' heads explode.

This is such typically crap politician speak. Throw a few punchy attention grabbing headlines out there (you'd think Gove used to be a journalist or something!) getting the teachers all riled and some parents (tbh-most parents) cross and then NOTHING-no details about how this will actually work in practice. Will he just spit out some watered-down version which everyone will be so relieved about, they'll accept it without moaning?

What made me laugh is that the Tories have been so awful, and the Lib Dems so ineffectual (as there's so few of them), labour just had to sir there and do nothing and I would have voted for them! Then Labour start spouting about 5-year licences for teachers!! Honestly, all they had to do was NOTHING and they couldn't even do that!

Who can we vote for now?!! I trust and like none of them ;(

I've not yet spoken to a parent or teacher who thinks that the longer days/ shorter holidays would work.

Is this to please people who think teachers have it easy, children are all stupid thugs and parents are incapable of raising their children?

Or Daily Mail readers for short.