Gove wants private and state schools to be indistinguishable!

[rollonthesummer]

Roll on a class of 15; hurrah!

I thought I hated Balls with a passion but then Gove came along...

I'm not sure about his argument about 10-hour days - I don't have much experience of independent schools but the ones around here don't seem to have days much longer than state schools. And if they do, isn't is partly because they have considerably longer holidays than state schools.
And I agree with others -he scares me. My children will both be out of the education system as of this summer but I feel for those whose children have the important years to come.

He is really on a different planet I think... I wish he would just visit a few normal schools to see that actually not all state schools are full of neanderthal thugs terrorising the geeks, ineffectual teachers etc etc etc.

Either the 10 hour days will be optional-then we can choose to use them or not. If they are compulsory though, and actual lessons are being taught, what happens if parents choose to not send their child because they have ballet/cubs/dinner/they actually like being with them after school? Will they miss out on schooling? Will parents be fined because their child is absent?

Either way-who does he want to man the school and where will the extra money come from to pay them?

The whole longer days/shorter holidays thing is a farce being motivated by business - he is saying this is to put them in line with private schools in my experience private schools locally have LONGER holidays than state. Their little rosy faced privately educated children are out walking dogs at least 2 weeks either side of either of my childrens state terms finishing.

I am curious to know when exactly in the evening he thinks the children would eat - is the plan that they would eat at school? In which case, judging by my son's lack of success in eating decently at school they are going to have to put serious thought and investment into evening meal provision. Alternatively they eat when they come home? DS1 would have gone into hunger rage way before that and there will be a blood bath - I thought for "healthy living" eating late into the evening was not recommended?

of course you can have smaller class sizes. anything is possible if you pay for it. that's what parents with kids in private schools do, they pay for it. what gove wants is hoards of parent volunteers all doing unpaid work in schools to allow this to happen. he wants to pay peanuts for teaching staff and not get monkeys. in this govian utopia I just ask how? more parents back at work so less to volunteer to do unpaid work. more parents like me so hacked off with the school holiday rule that our partnership with the school has suffered. a huge national debt so where is all this money going to come from. he lives in bonkers land. he fails to engage brain before opening mouth. more than 3 years in the job? then isn't it time for a change Mr Cameron before there isn't a parent left that would vote for you.

I can't get to grips with this 10 hour day thing, would it be compulsory?
My dd has struggled at school, so much that she now has a tutor twice a week to help her (just to keep up not to excel) a 10 hour day at school would mean no tuition and would be detrimental to her education.
I am scared by gove, I actually quite like my dd and don't want to send her to school for 10 hours a day.

I'm starting to think dh's Australian passport might come in handy!

the 10 hour day is so that no parent can use the awful excuse of having kids to stop them going out to work and claiming benefits. this is about saying everyone has to work or they get no money. I do not want my kids in school for 10 hours a day. this is not why I had them. they will not learn any more than they do now, I will just see them a lot less. point to me the private school which has 10 hour days. point to me the private school with the same length of holidays as state school. he is piling on ridiculous idea after ridiculous idea and its all about increasing the nanny state. I want him out. I want him out now.

Mummymeister I agree, I have never been very politically motivated but these suggestions have made livid. We will move back to Australia rather than send dd to school for 10 hours a day

Logistical problem

If my dcs school had class sizes limited to say 20, that would mean on the current roll they would require 9 extra classrooms

There is no school field to build on and it's already a 2 story building -would the neighbours gardens be an option?

At least at the high school they could build the 24 extra rooms on the school field -who needs sport???

but the sports facilities are one of the main reasons parents round here send their DC private (our state schools are pretty reasonable on the whole) - if we have to build on the sports fields to get the extra classrooms needed to match the private class sizes, where do they do the sport?

(hit post too soon)
If he wants state schools to be like private schools, he can't just pick and choose which bits he wants. State schools will need the same funding levels, same teacher-pupil ratio, same facilities. Then we can talk about length of days and length of holidays.

oh come now 17leftfeet. why are you letting logic get in the way of one of Mikey boy Goves brilliant ideas. really. I know. why don't we make all those parents who can pay for education pay for education. after all its only a small step now that unis charge such high fees and we could start with secondary education first off. those that pay get the lovely schools. those that don't go to "places of learning" for 10 hours plus a day so that we can cut off all benefits to their parents and make them work. and why don't we call these places work schools or even houses!! this man is bonkers but unfortunately he is also powerful which makes him imo very very dangerous. if you have a tory mp write to them and tell them that you wont vote for them. this is the only way to stop this utter madness. Cameron will reign him in if he thinks votes are at stake.

My children went to independent school and generally were in classes of around 25 at senior level. I wonder if the figures look lower because at GCSE the numbers dropped to around 20 per class and at A level much lower. Incidentally they did have a longer day (I think it was 8.40 till 4), holidays were mostly the same except they broke up earlier for the summer (usually around 5th-9th July) and possibly a week more at Xmas but we had a week less at Whit.

I agree with those who say it is not just about class sizes though. There were high standards of behaviour, hard work and personal achievement expected (obviously varied for each child). The school mine went to had quite rigid discipline and parents were expected to back up the teachers. Parents who chose a school like that and committed to paying for it were happy but some young people and some parents would not want a system where they were expected to toe those lines.

My DCs have both finished school now and are very grateful for the chances their school gave them. It would be nice to give all young people that chance to excel but I'm not sure that the private system where you have a small, self-selecting group who all sing from the same hymn sheet is extendable to larger groups with more diverse attitudes and aspirations

holidays were mostly the same except they broke up earlier for the summer (usually around 5th-9th July) and possibly a week more at Xmas but we had a week less at Whit.

We only have a week at Whitsun-do you mean you had no half term at all?

I think a lot more children at state school would excel if the teachers weren't constantly dealing with the disruptive children who didnt want to be there (one of DSs classmates is actually rewarded by his mum when he gets into trouble, apparently she thinks its funny)

Private schools have the benefits of
Small class sizes
Good facilities
Generally supportive parents
Selective admission

We can't change the parents in state schools and can't have selective admission, but we know good quality facilities and small classes will give better results. I trust this is what Goove has in mind....

I don't want my children's state primary to become more like the local preps. It is an insult to the many many very good teachers and support staff in state schools to see this as a one-way learning process.

I'd always viewed teachers that left the state system to work in a private school to have 'copped out' because they couldn't hack it at the chalk face! Probably very harsh and unfair, I know. It does seem amusing though that now we are supposed to learn from their excellent teaching!

Yep, my money is on the 10hr day being so they can make single parents work full time when their kids are teens (they've already said they want to do this) . I hope they're ready to deal with the kids who are bullied at school / self harm / have eating disorders, because their single parents won't be able to do it at work .

Michael Gove is a twat, a very scary, ill-informed, twat.

maillotjaune
I don't want my children's state primary to become more like the local preps. It is an insult to the many many very good teachers and support staff in state schools to see this as a one-way learning process.

What do you think the state system can teach the private system?

this is what its all about meglet. not kids and their welfare but feckless parents that wont work and need benefits. instead of dealing with the issue at source and sorting this out by giving proper support etc he gets a bloody great sledgehammer again to crack a nut that actually he wont end up cracking will he. this is bonkers. anyone that thinks otherwise is deluded. your kids wont be spending hours in some small class size utopia with bags of help and support then on to 3 hours of fun fun fun in clubs and societies. they will be sitting there, bored witless, tired and disengaged. what about travelling time. we live in a rural area an hour to school so not in until 7pm. and all because the govt wont get to grips with the tiny teeny minority of adults taking the piss out of the system and milking it.

Wasn't there some research that came out last year which showed that the biggest single factor in the quality of a school wasn't per head spending, or location, or demographic or class size - but it was the headteacher.

mummymeister I can't write to my Tory MP and say I won't be voting for Gove. She already knows I think they're idiots.