So the verdict is apparently due in the Meredith Kercher murder trial today

[PortofinoRevisited]

BBC Link

The appeal after the overturned convictions. I hope this can all be brought to a close now.

I'm not sure how you can trust a judge that talks to the press about a case that hasn't been reported yet, justifying his decision on the basis that 'There were some coincidences'.

I think he's shot himself in the foot with his unprofessionalism, I wonder if that was his only way out of this pressure.

\link{http://groundreport.com/meredith-kercher-crime-scene-instigation/\this is fascinating} - a detailed account of what happened when on the day Meredith's body was discovered. It explains a lot about the mixed DNA, bloodstains, translation confusion, timings.

The writer is 'a member of Amanda Knox’s Greater Seattle Area community' - according to one of her comments below the piece, she has access to information not publicly available.

Also:

'Just after Luca breaks down the door, Paola screams, “Blood!” and Filomena begins screaming “A foot! A foot!”
'Filomena is screaming and hysterical, Amanda thinks that they have just found a severed foot and tells her terrified mother that she needs to get off the phone to give the police her full attention.

'She hears someone say “armoire” and thinks a foot was found in the armoire in Meredith’s room, then she thinks that Meredith has been stuffed into her armoire. Raffaele finally helps her understand that Meredith is lying on her floor, in front of her armoire, with her foot was sticking out from under her bedspread.
'Luca, Filomena, Paola, Marco and the police are the only ones to see inside the bedroom, but no one yet realizes that Meredith has been stabbed in the throat.

'Luca sees Battistelli lift the blood-soaked bedspread covering Meredith’s body so that he can confirm she is dead. Battistelli has now contaminated the murder scene but would later deny entering the room until Luca confirmed it.'

Battistelli has now contaminated the murder scene but would later deny entering the room until Luca confirmed it

Italian policeman lies. Who'd have thought it

(& there is the body in the cupboard idea)

also:

'All six young adults were sent to the police station to answer more questions, Amanda and Raffaele would ride with Marco and Luca. It’s then that she finds out from Luca that Meredith’s throat was cut ; Amanda breaks down and cries all the way to the police station, Raffaele comforts her as best he can.'

'After the arrival of the medical emergency team, a paramedic tells Luca that Meredith’s throat was “slashed” and she “suffocated” on her own blood.
'Luca provides this detail to everyone in the car when they are on their way to the Questra more than two hours after the discovery of Meredith’s body.

'Amanda later repeats the detail to Meredith’s British girlfriends, about four hours after Meredith is discovered, a few days later the police spin the story that “Amanda only knew details a killer would know” fueling the smear campaign.
'In reality, the court record demonstrates that all of the young adults present were clearly sharing information amongst themselves and at that point in time, due to the language barrier, Amanda knew far less than the five young Italians.'

The more nformation I read, the more I think she is innocent.

It seems the police have lied so many times. The whole thing is a farce.

AngelaDaviesHair - you're right, I meant the pathologist. The pathologist (Dr Lalli) that performed the offical autopsy was happy that the wounds were consistent with a lone attacker

Horsetowater - Amanda didn't buy bleach. They produced a witness that claimed to have seen Amanda in the cleaning aisle of his shop on the morning of the murder. He came forward following speaking to a reporter after 1-year and ended up becoming a witness after being on TV. In the days after the crime, the police visited his shop and showed him a picture of Amanda and he claimed he hadn't seen her. The other people working in the shop all testified that Amanda wasn't there and there was no record of anyone buying cleaning products at that time.

It seems that the prosecution can always find a witness - they even found a witness to claim that Lumumba's bar was closed, which helped keep him in prison for two weeks.

Flora - that isn't true re. pathologists findings.

I do remember thinking at the time that they wanted to get Lumumba for it. I'm sure the local established Italians wouldn't have complained.

Guede on the other hand was different, he had shared a home with one of the wealthiest local Italian families for several years.

It actually reminds me in a lot of ways of the farcical U-turns that happened in the McCann case, as though some bright spark would have an idea and they would try to make the evidence fit the crime.

This latest thing with the Judge (a Judge ffs) talking to the international press before the reports are out is quite astounding.

I don't think the Corriere della Sera is classed as International Press. That was who did the interview with the judge.

Tbh, he didn't even say very much, and refused to answer specifics about the case until the official motivations are released.

In my opinion (and marking my spot!) AK and RS are not guilty of murdering MK. There is no DNA evidence to suggest this whatsoever ... None in the bedroom, on MK body and no circumstantial evidence to prove they were at the cottage that night. Plenty of evidence re RG.

I cannot understand how they have been proven guilty again? There just seems no solid, concrete evidence to suggest it!

But then what do I know?! Would love to have been a fly on the wall during the trials to see how they got to this verdict.
I hope the Kercher family can get the real answers and not be dragged through this for much longer

Flora - that isn't true re. pathologists findings. - it is true, Dr Lalli thought that the wounds were consistent with both a lone and group attack and was perfectly happy that they were consistent with a lone attack. Ron Hendy has also done a very thorough analysis and concluded that all consistent with a lone attacker.

The prosecution tried to argue differently - and had some crazy idea that a tall man with a knife wouldn't be able to overpower a small woman due to a yellow belt in karate - my 6-year-old niece has a yellow belt. Most people won't fight back if their attacker has a knife and will be easily controlled.

www.salem-news.com/articles/december042010/amanda-know.php

" Dr Lalli thought that the wounds were consistent with both a lone and group attack and was perfectly happy that they were consistent with a lone attack"

Che?

Guede was arrested a few days earlier with an 11 inch knife in a nursery.

He was alone then, and in all the other burglaries he made over the recent months.

Why would he suddenly be recruiting a young couple who were friends of the victim to join him?

This is so far off the mark.

Yes - Guede was also found with stolen property in his bag, which included a laptop from a lawyers office. This office had been broken into by throwing a stone through the window and then climbing the bars on the window below to gain access, which is also exactly what happened at the cottage. He had even lined up bits of glass on the window ledge in exactly the same way. They know this and still claim that Amanda and Raffaele staged a break-in

Sorry if that didn't make sense about the pathologist DSITP - you keep hearing the pro-guilt people saying that they must be guilty as the wounds indicate a group attack. However, the pathologist didn't think you could make any definite conclusion from the wounds and was happy with a lone wolf scenario

the pathologist also accepted that more than more person could be responsible. So hardly conclusive, that's why further autopsies were requested by the judge.

If you read about the facts-

Guede had broken into properties before by throwing a brick into a window,
had been found with a knife,
was found with stolen property in his bag,
Was seen on CCTV near the cottage
his DNA was found all over the bedroom,
he fled the country,
he was surprised that Knox had been arrested and said "she wasn't in the house"

There is NO conclusive and undisputed evidence that Knox and RS were in the house at the time of the murder. Yet there is a huge amount for Guede.

Why is there no DNA of Knox in the bedroom?
Why aren't they on CCTV?
Why did Guede originally say they weren't there?

but why don't their alibis make sense?

also - flora - re the footprint in the bathroom - you said it was RG but didn't it have closer match to RS

The knife didn't have any blood on it only traces of DNA.

Very interesting article on it - www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24534110

Absolutely true what they say about DNA - it's not the fact that it's there that counts, it's how it got there.

I read somewhere (can't remember where now so no idea if I could find it again) that the footprint didn't match RS because his second toe is raised & doesn't touch the floor

they had evidence from an orthopaedic person

Horsetowater - the knife didn't even definitely have DNA on it at the point where they claim the Kercher DNA was found. They kept getting readings of too low, too low, too low, too low - and whatever was put into the machine was used up and couldn't be retested - and nobody has ever seen the control files or electronic data files, which help prove it wasn't just a dodgy photocopy - although the police were found trying to sneak in some fake control documents until someone noticed the numbers didn't match. It's incredible it wasn't all thrown out for this

Nancy66 - are you trying to say that they didn't like what the pathologist had to say - so found some more pathologists to do more autopsies, until one of them confirmed their crazy theories. You just couldn't make this stuff up

And people really believe there isn't reasonable doubt? I would far rather 1000 guilty people to go free than to have 1 innocent person convicted

I don't think you can really say the footprint on the mat was definitely anyone - far too distorted

has Filomena put her story across?

Filomena and Laura (the other flatmate) both got lawyers straight away, which tells you that they were concerned with how the police would treat them - and Filomena asked Amanda to lie to the police about her cannabis use

They testified that they hadn't noticed any bad feeling between Amanda and Meredith - but I think Filomena thought Amanda was quite stupid and immature and I think after the horrendous media coverage about Amanda, they thought she was involved. Not sure what they would think now as most of the initial stories in the press were lies

See the more I read, the more I'm reminded why I thought they were guilty all along!

Flora, I have been wondering all along about the cannabis thing - how illegal is it in Italy? Apparently most of them (the girls in the cottage & the boys in the apartment downstairs) were quite regular users - maybe the police wouldn't have been impressed to hear that's what AK & RS had been doing the night before (& maybe RS's parents wouldn't either)

Filomena & Laura both worked in legal offices & got lawyers instantly

stickysausages, I don't understand what you mean

Filomena works in a legal office and asked Amanda to lie to the police?

It is really quite astounding.

You get a lawyer in Italy for a parking ticket. It's the land of lawyers, seriously. Whatever you need doing. Here, if you don't know what else to study at university, and are not that good frankly, you go and study law. I have 2 classes of high school students and at least 1/3 of them have lawyer parents. That is not unusual. So, to get a lawyer immediately in this sort of situation wouldn't be strange at all.

Cannabis is as illegal as it is anywhere else I think. (am too old for that sort of thing) But it's usage is rife. And I guess when there are dead bodies poking out of wardrobes, (or not) a marijuana plant isn't that much of a priority.

Another point of procedure- both parties in a trial can ask for "perizie" (expert witness studies) and do so frequently. Including the autopsy. Another cause celeb (Salvatore Parolisi, murdered wife) involved a second autopsy ordered by (IIRC) the prosecution lawyers because there was some doubt about time of death. Raffaele Sollecito's lawyers insisted on further "perizie" on his computer etc etc. In another case (Chiara Poggi, murdered by boyfriend, who looks uncannily like RS for any conspiracy theorists out there, not that there are any on these threads, oh no ) the perizia on his computer (he was writing his thesis when she was murdered) was done by a member of his own family. Go figure.