ISRAEL;WHEN WILL THE WEST DO SOMETHING... PART II

[UCM]

Here goes....

Just would like to say I agree totally with Uwilla on removal of Sadaam Hussain, yes the iraq war was and is bloody awful but what about all the people Sadaam has killed, tortured, raped, locked up (could go on and on) for the last 30 years. Just because it did not get the massive media coverage the iraq war did does not mean it did not happen.

Yes, Lucyju, why not Magabe? And why doesn't someone else take turn?!?! I'm rather tired of people like my brother putting his life on the line, only to be criticesed for it. Maybe some other countries could try pulling their weight.

i don't believe people are so naive that they accept this rhetoric about us going in to 'save' the Iraqi people from Saddam. Do you know how many places i there are in the world where people are horrifically abused by dictators. And we do nothing. The Hmong people have been systematically tortured/abused and killed by the Vietnamese army for decades and yet we do nothing. Mugabe is another case in point. Burma. The list goes on. So why don't we invade?

ah now it makes sense Uwila. I am sorry, I didn't know your brother was putting his life on the line. He is a soldier? I think the soldiers in question do a brilliant job, and of course they want to think they are saving people and giving them a chance of a better life. They are doing the best they can in the situation. I do not blame the troops. I blame the govts that send them there, obviously.

"i don't believe people are so naive that they accept this rhetoric about us going in to 'save' the Iraqi people from Saddam. Do you know how many places i there are in the world where people are horrifically abused by dictators. And we do nothing. The Hmong people have been systematically tortured/abused and killed by the Vietnamese army for decades and yet we do nothing. Mugabe is another case in point. Burma. The list goes on. So why don't we invade?"

Absolutely agree ruty I think we should get rid of the lot of them and I know Bush and Blair have targeted Iraq for their own personal gain, still does not mean that Sadaam did not kill thousands of people, what should we be saying "well we are leaving that dictator alone so we should leave Sadaam alone"

Because it is not 'someone else's turn' to remove Mugabe or any other tyrant. it is never 'someone else's job' to remove another country's leader. For a few centuries, it has been agreed that international law that regime change was not an acceptable reason to declare war on another country. This is the reason why a lot of military personnel in the British Army are highly demoralised about the Iraqi conflict. This is why a lot of commisssioned officers in the British Army are taking retirement as early as they can, including members of my family. They know that regime change in another man's country is breaking international law.

My baby brother is also serving in a United States uniform in north of Baghdad. This conflict can also have personal ramifications for me.

ok at least we agree B and B targeted Iraq for their own personal gain. The fact is it is impossible to go into every country where there is an abuse of human rights and rip it up. It will destroy our economies and it only creates more havoc and chaos in those countries too. Invasion and war is not the answer. It was not the answer for Iraq either. Can't believe people still might think it was.

He's not anymore. But he did two tours of duty in Iraq.

I tellya, you want to know what really ticks me off, it's stories like this: Sgt. Steve Roberts This man died not because he was given the wrong kit, but because it was actually taken back from him to save costs. This is inexcusable. And, Mr. Hoon, "I'm sorry" doesn't really cut it.

it is inexcusable Uwila. But no more inexcusable than the thousands of Iraqis who have died. His life is not worth more than theirs, i'm sure you'll agree.

that really ticks me off to Uwila, but not as much as the fact that he should not have been there in the first place.

No oil in Vietnam, Burma or Zimbabwe. Mugabe and friends are safe.

Oh FFS are we back on the oil conspiracy theory... I'm off to do my work...

Exactly Belo.

I dont profess (is that the right word) to understand all the politics and history about dictatorships and war etc.

Why cant people just live their lives. Is it really that difficult.

regime change and international law

this little article may be helpful.

"this is a bunch of poxy hippie wannabes trying to be PC and posturing. it's a yawner and very typical of MN." Since when did it become PC and hippie to be horrified by the sight of children dying in a pointless war? FFS. I guess most people in the world are a bunch of poxy hippie Pc posturing wannabees then Expat, because most people are pretty bloody horrified by the sight of massacred families.

Mud - I am afraid you are wrong. I am anti-Zionist and by definition that makes me anti-fascist. Zionism is fascism and imperialism by another name.

If you knew anything about Zionist ideology, you would understand that.

I have friends who are liberal Jews. They detest the State of Israel as much as I do. So yes of course you can be a Jew and anti-Israel at the same time.

Only the very hardcore who say "my country/religion right or wrong" are those who support Israel no matter what it does. The latter are by definition also anti-liberal.

This is a very good discusiion on anti-Zionism v anti-semitism

have a look at this

mimoyello - such a stupid assertion that being anti-zionist equates to anti-fascism is facile and ignorant at best. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and belivev that yuo are just ignorant

"I will give you the benefit of the doubt and belivev that yuo are just ignorant"

is this really necessary?

oh yes it is totally necessary!

then explain please.

Mud can you define Zionism as you see it?

' poxy hippie wannabes trying to be pc...'

these comments really do reduce the level of all your contributions to this thread as total brainless crap Expat. What a silly girl you are.

mimoyello... 'I am anti-Zionist and by definition that makes me anti-fascist. Zionism is fascism and imperialism by another name.'

to paraphrase the logic
Z=Zionism
F=Facism
Z=Imperialism

the premise:

1. Z->I+F

and
2) NotZ->NotF

Now, let apply these rules with some known leaders in history.

Hitler. Not Zionist. But applying the rule 2), he's not a facist either. The Logic fails!

I am actually sorry I'm posting this as it totally off topic and not useful for the discussion. But discussion is so bizarrely off-topic anyway, I couldn't resist.

I totally agree with you Mud. mimoyello is an ignoramus.