New thread re Roy Meadow (no Sir!)

[Janh]

Cheeseball, specially for you, yet another thread but without the Sir! (I'll post a link from the 2nd thread).

If what we are doing here is being radical busybodies then I am proud to be one! I am so sorry your husband feels like this and won't help you escape from the burden you are under.

Many of our MPs have now seen some details of Bunglie's case which we have forwarded to them and not one has said "you shouldn't be talking about this, you are breaking the law". Those gagging orders are so wrong and will surely be overturned before long. If you have to wait until they are before you can do something about your own case then so be it - he is wrong to be so angry with you about something that wasn't your fault but you are the one who lives with him and we can't tell you what to do.

If you get a chance do think about ringing Bunglie, you don't have to tell her your name or any details at all but I'm sure it would make you feel so much better (unless the guilt at doing it made you feel worse...)

Sorry Bunglie, thought someone else had already covered Royal College. Basically item on Today programme, Paeds claiming docs involved in child protection had been intimidated and subject to hate mail, death threats, etc. etc. Maybe true but found the timing very suspicious coming just days after first MSbP family court appeals and when its members are facing the biggest scandal since Orkney and Cleveland cases.

But today's even more bizarre story was about Southall accusing Sally Clark's dh of murder after watching a Dispatches documentary. Southall reckoned no baby of 11 weeks would ever have a nose bleed unless had been attacked. Makes you wonder if he's ever seen a 'normal' baby. He actually got social services and police to investigate Clark, when Sally already in prison, risking their surviving child being taken into care. It really does beggar belief.

Hugs to Bunglie, Cheeseball, PostSue and all of you.

Good morning - I hate mornings so I have cancelled them due to lack of interest!
I am shocked about the hate campaign over peads. It is this kind of thing that does not do people like me any good. Yes It is them on the receiving end and now know what it feels like to be at the end of a witch-hunt, but two wrongs do not make a right. I think that if we want the medical profession to see things from our point of view and have their support in getting back children (which we will need) then this is not the way to go about it. I am horrified it has come to this and I blame a system rather than an individual. How awful for their families to be subjected to this kind of hate. I know this is just my opinion but I have no wish to hurt anyone because I was hurt, can't people see that was wrong??

What was the today programme about (sorry american spelling of 'program' just for sofia, these foreigners find it hard to understand proper English ,). Thanx SA have tried phoning but out to lunch, will keep you posted.

Seriously what when and where is the today programme it seems to have a lot on it that I miss-is it on the radio?

must be time for lunch? Love Bunglie XX

Radio 4 morning news programme, Bunglie - here - it has listen again links for lots of items.

Hang on a minute, Bunglies dropped a stich somewhere, and she has not even had a drink yet today!
Sally Clarkes HUSBAND has been accused of murder?
Is this official or just some pi**ed off Dr. Saying something in retaliation or something?
I am confused....Does this mean that men can now get MSBP or are they saying it is cold blooded murder, any links to this story I can read?
GillW you seem to be "The Link Queen", (I don't even know how to do it, I must learn...), but I am honestly very confused as to what is going on today. Have I awoken in another 'reality' in a multi-dimensional universe?

Thanks Janh! I shall listen and see if I can make sense of this, I really am rather confused at the moment.

Haven't heard/seen it yet, but family lawyer I spoke to today was appalled. Spoke to consultant (not paediatrician) friend of mine who was also appalled that judges are believing these people.

Bunglie, click on Listen Again (top L) on the Today home page, then the item is at 0732 on the running order list - haven't heard it myself yet, just about to. I am utterly boggled too. The man is mad.

I have just listened to it....I am almost speechless! This Dr Southall seems to me to be more 'dangerous' than meadows but vindictive. I do not understand how he can say the dh did it because a baby does not have nose bleeds unless it is caused by something from an external source. Thank God that the police, ss and all dismissed his claims. And to think he did all this from seeing a documentary.

I know that a lot of the women, like myself, were diagnosed by Prof. Meadows and he never even saw us, medical notes or dr's that treated us. His reasoning was that in my case, I was so manipulative that I would have manipulated the dr's to see things from my point of view and the differences of opinion between himself and these other doctors were "intractable". That is the word he used (what does it mean in this context?). I am worried, if a Dr. feels he can diagnose a patient without seeing them and that to see dr's that had had contact with them would not be constructive because one of the symptoms of MSBP is that the 'mother's are highly manipulative', then we can never hope to win unless the medical proffession comes clean and kicks out the rogue element that is enjoying the 'power' it has at the expense of others who are gwtting death threats. What a bizare situation.

Question: Without meeting me could you diagnose as to whether I had or had not harmed my children with 100% certainty?

This may seem unfair to ask as you have only had my side of the story, but Dr Southill only had one side of the story and tried to get the last child of the clarkes removed based on his beliefs from the interview?

Let's put it another way, based on what you know of me would you trust me to look after MY own child?

Basically this is what Dr Southill did, he heard one side of the story and then tried to get the police to investigate the father.

You may be interested to know that I have a couple of relatives who are dr's. (I don't hold it against them!) but they have told me that one of the first things you learn at medical school is that you NEVER critisize the treatment of another dr. to the patient even if you know it to be wrong. So if this is taught to them as part of their training, what can we seriously expect the GMC to do. This needs a government enquirey, and I think that is what we should all write (emails do not seem to work) to our MP's and ask for.

The fundamental 'wrongs' in the system are getting burried due to the 'tangents' that are coming up and throwing us all off track. I think that it is important that we keep focussed on what we/you believe to be the issue here and not let sensationalism divert you. We should not need stoop to their methods we have 'truth' on our side and that is far more important.

Oooh! Bunglies got a bit radical here, sorry got carried away but now feel better for getting it out of my system.

Bunglie, I don't think, from what Sally Clarke's MP said on the clip, that they are getting sidetracked - they are complaining about Southall and Meadow making wild diagnoses on the basis of what amounts almost to hearsay. (I need to listen again again!)

Bunglie, VOTE TORY, the labour party will never do it. (I'm off to a meeting of my local conservative party tonight to get a conservative mp elected instead of the labour guy who won't answer my emails).

Bunglie - I would most certainly let you look after my daughter let alone your own child.

I think these men have a god complex - do you think we can get them on that I mean I have never met them but they seem to - exactley the same sort of reasoning they are using.

Makes me sooo bloody cross what a complete bunch of wankers!!! (oohhh another 10p in the swear box!!)

Bunglie - just for you I found a link to this story - although I think others have beaten me to it!

um - Sofia - I hesitate to mention this here but which party was in charge from 79 - 97, when this all started?

I don't disagree, but I wasn't in this country to do something then. Now I am and do think that a real change is necessary to make change.

p.s. at last someone bit....I'll start a new political thread when I get home tonight (my boss is a rabid socialist/lib democrat/labour/anything but tory).

Hey, guess what, I'm a child abuser. I must be. My baby had nose bleeds sometimes. I agree, have these paeds ever seen a real live baby - or looked after one? I truly suspect not. Mind you, I thought that when I went with a friend to A&E about a year ago with her baby who was vomiting. Poor mite finally got off to sleep in her arms after waiting in Casualty for FOUR hours, when the dr decided to wake him up, take him out of his mother's arms, stripped him off, forced him to lie on a cold couch under an arc light, and then, when the baby screamed with exhaustion and fury, announced, "This baby is clearly in a lot of pain" ! Er, no, he's tired and p**sed off with you.
They can't even diagnose properly when they have a baby in front of them, how DARE they diagnose when they haven't even met or examined anyone. Surely this has to be unethical?

Bunglie - I'm sure that you've got contact deetaisl for support organisations coming out of your ears - but if you need any more there are details here for a helpline for people in your situation.

Also a good piece from the same paper highlighting that the "review" seems destined to exclude a lot of deserving cases and "It will be very important for them (wrongly adopted children) to know their parents were innocent of any wrongdoing." Maybe of no practical help to you - but it's the first piece I've seen making the point which is so important to you.

Agh! Thanks GillW.
The more I read the more angry I get and that is not constructive.
I want to know why the government has decided to wait until the outcome of the GMC enquirey (or is that inquirey?)before they do anything. I think that the government is really trying to get the GMC do it's dirty work. My M.P. Should be there to help and support me 'do the right thing', regardless of what party he is. He is my representative in our democratic system of government. I am shocked that emails and faxes are getting 'lost' Where are they because they did not 'bounce' back? Now it is me going off at a tangent!

I really feel a bit of a fraud asking for support in trying to 'get to know my children' after all the s**t that has been thrown at the Clark family. (does Clark have an 'e'on the end?)
Take this from their childs perspective, because after all that is what the family division of the high court do, 'put the best interests of the child first'.
It has the bereavment of siblings to cope with. It is told that it's mother is a murderess; looses it's mother and then then when it gets its mother back it's told that it's father murdered it's siblings. Finally the ss have to decide whether to remove it from the only stability that it has had, 'it's home' whilst they investigate. It sounds horrific enough but when you then realise that all this has been done in 'It's' best interest by two doctors (Meadows & Southill) who have never met either of it's parents.....
It is no wonder that our children grow up deviant if this is the kind of example we set them. My heart goes out to the Clark family for managing to keep their sanity in this insane society we have let develop.
O.K. I agree it is a bit simplified as a version of events but how else is a child supposed to see things?

(Just going to phone again SA)

Sofia - I look forward to your thread
So thing would have been different eh! SofiaAmes v Maggie Thatcher, A close call

Aloha - Now you realise what is going to happen, this is an open admission, not forced out of you in anyway and you are probably only admitting to the fact that your child has had nose bleeds for attention. I am certain that all of those peads, will realise that this is a fabricated presentation of an illness, done soley for your benefit and can not tell the difference between fact and fantasy and you are only telling us to manipulate our feelings towards generating sympathy for you -
Do I qualify as a Doc? I can diagnose without even seeing you with MSBP!

I am SORRY, I realise that this is not a subject for jokes but if you don't laugh you cry.

Ooh Bunglie You are getting quite radical, and yes I would easily leave you with my kids - In fact I would pay you to have them!
I do understand what you are saying about that poor little Clarke child. It certainly will be a miracle if he comes out of all this unscathed.

Oh Go on Sofia Ames, Maggie has met her match, did the Americans throw you out or did you come of your own accord? We all know what a mess the Tories got us into, they privatised everything, including the NHS, perhaps if they hadn't then this could not have happened.......

Put your anger to something constructive Bunglie, it does not have to be destructive.

Bunglie, you are quite right. I will turn myself in now...

Just a little question, remember I accidently posted something yesterday, well I sent 'tech' an email and asked them to remove it, it is still there so I have just sent another. How long was it before they removed your posting?
Am I being impatient?

No, they just won't let my dh into america because he was a naughty boy in his younger days. (long story).