Child taken from womb? Truth into darkness....

[LakeDistrictBabe]

Ok, the old thread is nearly full. If you read the other three, I don't need to re-write everything again ;)

But you know I am referring to the case involving an Italian mother and the British social services.
Opinions welcome.

Oh, and I started the first thread vehemently Not Getting It.

Being educated is a wonderful thing.

Thanks special agent - If even just one person can understand then this has been worth it.

I have just emailed Women Against Rape as I am concerned they may not know what they are dealing with.

To whom it may concern

On Friday John Hemming MP posted on a thread on mumsnet that he had met with your group on Wednesday and is in discussions with you about campaigning.

You may wish to examine his behaviour on this thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/1938715-Child-taken-from-womb-Truth-into-darkness?

For many years now I have had concerns about Mr Hemming and his campaigning activities. He ‘advises’ vulnerable women on the basis of his belief that the family justice system is ‘corrupt’ and ‘evil’ and that babies are routinely removed from otherwise loving homes to be adopted in order that LA can obtain financial benefits. He has never been able to provide any evidence for this very serious allegation, despite repeated requests.

I have been contacted by women who very much regret taking his advice because his recommendations not to co-operate with social workers invariably has disastrous consequences.

You may also be interested to know that he also refuses to dissociate himself from Ian Josephs, a fellow campaigner against the ‘evil system’, even though Mr Josephs gives advise that one should think very carefully before reporting even sexual abuse within a family. These men share strong campaigning links and refer to each other on their websites. Please Google Mr Josephs if you want to know more; his ‘golden rules’ are particularly illuminating.

In my view, the most serious example of his poor behaviour on this thread was his decision to publish the names of all three of the children of Allessandra Pacchieri, despite a court order prohibiting identification of her baby. He has refused to apologise or show any remorse for this action which could result in serious consequences for the welfare of a very vulnerable child.

In short, this man is no friend to women or vulnerable children. I do not know if you are aware of his activities, but I thought it best to warn you in case you were unaware. You can then make an informed decision about whether or not a continued professional association with Mr Hemming MP will be of benefit to your organisation.

Carpe, in answer to your question about the 'back from the pub' shenanigans, in my experience, this is new.

In my previous dealings with him on this site he has been much more 'professional' - not by understanding the difference between fact and assertion of course, but in not revealing personal details or talking about trips to the pub.

Again, interesting.

Anybody know if the pub trips started being mentioned before or after he emailed Spero the unredacted page from the ongoing court case ?

Nicely done Spero.

I would also like to say that I have been educated by these threads. I have never had any dealings with family courts. I don't understand the terminology of freeing orders, or the other column headings in JH's spreadsheet.

I have had some dealings with SS. They twice paid me to take care of children who were not able to be looked after by their own family.

One if these children was a v cute blonde baby girl. Her mother wanted to give her up for adoption. I looked after her for 2 nights. SS did everything they could to support her and keep them together. Reading these threads has made me remember that.

Sorry if this is not v eloquent. Posting from phone.

'freeing orders' were replaced by 'placement orders' in the 2002 Adoption Act. They are very different things - the problem with a 'freeing order' was that it could leave a child in limbo as then no one had parental responsibility. Children drifted for years in this system.

Now we have placement orders, where LA and parents retain parental responsibility and Independent Reviewing Officers whose job is to oversee the care plan and talk directly to the child if he or she is old enough.

But as we have seen, if you overload IROs with work, they are less effective.

So if he is using 'freeing orders' in his 'statistics' he is very out of date.

The impact of a 'freeing order' was to make the child 'free' for adoption. i.e. it extinguished the birth parents' parental responsibility. the problem with this was if you didn't have an adoptive placement lined up...

This is one of the real dangers of the system, that children in care are NOT somebody's 'special someone'. I wish we had more of the Danish system; on my hazy understanding children there are allocated one social worker who stays with them the entire time they are in the system.

Here, we have frequent changes of social workers as the case moves to different Teams throughout proceedings and lots of social workers go off on long term sick leave due to the stress of trying to manage impossible case loads and demands.

The fact that more children are being taken into care at birth may well be due to the post Baby P panic. There was a surge of applications for care orders after he died. No LA wanted to be the next one to let a toddler be beaten to death on their watch.

You assertion is that these care proceedings for new borns are 'needless'. They exist purely to bump up adoption rates.

Presumably therefore you will be able to provide a statistical breakdown of the family circumstances that prompted each LA intervention.

Or do you maintain that the LA would cobble together lies and/or mispreresentations about the family circumstances and that lawyers and Judges would collude in upholding these lies and/or misrepresentations?

Children are not 'stocks' and 'flows' and I wish you would stop referring to them as such.

It is very revealing of your mindset.

And please will you stop 'outing' people on this thread?

I have shown that I don't care but you haven't bothered to check with the others if they would be content with this.

This is contemptible and bullying behaviour.

There is a big growth of new borns being taken into care because the country has demanded that is the case because of 'baby p' Peter Connolly.

The country needs to decide whether it wants social workers to err on the side of caution and remove babies when there are concerns or be deemed to have failed to protect them if something happens, or if as a county we want people like you Mr Hemming to run round shouting 'forced adoption' so that social workers are told to take more risks and leave more babies with parents they have concerns about in order to protect the human rights of the parents that the ultimate consequence of that is that more children might be killed and hurt.

Which would you prefer Mr Hemming?

Exactly this

The country needs to decide whether it wants social workers to err on the side of caution and remove babies when there are concerns or be deemed to have failed to protect them if something happens, or if as a county we want people like you Mr Hemming to run round shouting 'forced adoption' so that social workers are told to take more risks and leave more babies with parents they have concerns about in order to protect the human rights of the parents that the ultimate consequence of that is that more children might be killed and hurt.

@Spero

That he was a bully was known.

He doesn't understand that outing people could lead him to be arrested.
Seriously.

Thank you for sharing my twitter account John. Now people can find me more easily.

I never say or do anything under an psudonym that I wouldn't say or do in my own name.

My name is Sarah Pravitra Fontó.

I live in northern Italy. Not far from Milano.

I don't care if anybody reading knows that. I am far from ashamed that I didn't shrug my shoulders and do nothing on the basis of "well I don't live in Britian anymore, so why should I give a fuck ?".

I believe that there is a simple choice, you force the issue of politicos being held accountable for misdeeds big or small, or you risk the fate of Italians being shared by Britons, ie hog tied, powerless and faced with government after government overrun with fuckwits, crooks, liars and clowns. There is a tipping point where "nothing we do do" becomes a reality. We are soon to see if that is the case in Britian as well as Italy.

And yes, I have taken this to twitter, email and the phone.

What did you expect ? That we would form a roman shield turtle over your head to hide your all too regular "oppsies!" posted on here ..from the court, your party, Essex and the public at large ?

Hence although the adoptions we refer to are always those of children in care they need babies to be taken into care to succeed or moreso not to be returned to their parents.

Babies like this one JH?

And MNHQ agree with me that 'outing' posters' RL identities are against the rules we all sign up to when we post here, so they have removed your post.

Am in a bit of a quandary here - I would like to see you banned but you are so gloriously exposing yourself for what you are on these threads that it is probably a public service to allow you to continue posting.

is against the rules. ffs

bore

I would like to see you banned but you are so gloriously exposing yourself for what you are on these threads that it is probably a public service to allow you to continue posting

You and the LibDem Whip both.?

Cos you have to wonder why nobody has been round to wrestle his keyboard off him and block mumsnet on his 'puter.

Given that his political opponants are well aware of this thread and its highlights

You haven't found me yet, Mr Hemming. Tough luck, but by all means keep trying. At least it's less harmful than spreading nonsense about babysnatching.

True nenny I'd much rather he were preoccupied with us than reaching out to vulnerable women and speading conspiracy therories that he is permentaly on the cusp of proving.... soon!

I can't believe you have outed me as the LibDem Whip Carpe

That is against Da Roolz

Sorry bore Hemming-itus is contagious.

Vaccination? Don't you know that is an evil conspiracy between BigPharma and the Lizard Overlords?

Tsk.

pretty poor attempt at outing me really considering all you are outing is my twitter account that bears no clues as to my real name, location etc. You see - in the role I have I find it better to post my personal feelings on political topics anonymously or I risk disciplinary action from my employers even if what I am posting is perfectly legal etc etc.

Perhaps something to consider for the future John?

If you would like me to sue carpe for outing you as the libDem whip bore just say the word.

I have been busy compiling spreadsheets and I reckon with evidence this red hot I can get you a few million in damages, easy.