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Child taken from womb? Truth into darkness....

999 replies

LakeDistrictBabe · 13/12/2013 20:20

Ok, the old thread is nearly full. If you read the other three, I don't need to re-write everything again ;)

But you know I am referring to the case involving an Italian mother and the British social services.
Opinions welcome.

OP posts:
LakeDistrictBabe · 19/12/2013 13:15

Does he even have the ear of the prime minister and cabinet at all?

Nope.

He also had a few posts deleted, for the same issues as everyone else.

And given that I appreciate that a few posters here got tired of the inane silliness going on at some point, I applaud AngelaDaviesHair to lead the storming out...of many posters.

I go back to Middle Earth... and I won't post again unless something exceptional comes out.

please feel free to PM me in case you have news you can't post. Thanks.

OP posts:
Spero · 19/12/2013 13:15

Of course he can't sort out the whole
System singlehanded . No one here has suggested that.

But he has more power and influence than anyone else on here so it is, to put it mildly, a pity he exercises his power in such a dangerous and contemptible way.

CUNT of course stands for Conspiracies Unmasked by Noble Truthers.

CarpeVinum · 19/12/2013 13:24

I have not noticed JH doing pas, but he might have been if I look back further.

No, he has only committed the "oh so much less naughy" offence of

-breeching a court order by posting the names of 3 minors on mumsnet.

-posting extracts from non public legal docs on mumsnet and leading people IN ITALY AND SUBJECT TO ITALIAN PRIVACY LAWS to believe they were public.

-sending a poster on the thread a page from legal docs in an ongoing case in tribunal, and did not redact names

In the matter of my potential loss of posterhood at mumsnet, do not concern yourself on my behalf.

I'll live Grin

And my house would be much cleaner.

And I might never serve up pasta with (burnt) buttered peas ever again.

Possibly.

I might join NetHuns. Must practise....

Spero · 19/12/2013 13:30

O, and don't forget his threats to me.

That post was deleted.

Shame that. I always think it is so much better for that kind of thing to be left to stand.

Then you really get the true measure of a person.

Spero · 19/12/2013 13:33

Is now my Christmas T shirt slogan of choice

Spero · 19/12/2013 13:36

Interestingly, I have been discussing this thread with my daughter as I think it a superb 'teachable moment' to think about what is the difference between a fact that you can prove and an assertion that you simply desperately want to believe is true.

I am proud beyond measure that she has taken exactly the key message from our discussions i.e. that you can further your cause by simply making stuff up.

she is nagging me for some new boots. I said if she could produce a convincing argument I would consider it. I have just been handed a piece of paper claiming that '80% of girls I have seen waring (sic) these kind of shoes'.

Excuse me a moment whilst I dash a tear of pride from my eye.

Maybe she can do some work experience with the Lib Dems and really refine her nascent skills of lying and making stuff up?

NanaNina · 19/12/2013 13:39

Dear John (see I have to be nice to you now...) Admittedly I don't possess your clarity of thought, but could you clarify something for me:

You don't want children adopted
You don't want children "languishing in care"
What do you want:

Maybe no children ever removed from parents, even those that will eventually be murdered or abused and neglected throughout their childhood.

OR - am I missing something? Please clarify/enlighten me.

I'm being facetious of course.

I would like to point out that the children who you deem to be "languishing in care" are actually being cared for the length and breadth of the country by dedicated foster carers, who are coping with some of the most emotionally damaged children in society, given their pre placement experiences. It is an absolute insult to all foster carers to say that these children are "languishing in care."

I know from the past that you have a complete lack of understanding of child development, but I have to stress that children being removed from parents will by definition all have suffered from significant harm, and that harm does not dissolve once they are removed from their parents/carers, they "take it with them" to the foster home and it remains to a greater or lesser extent throughout their lifespan.

OK the LCC case - yes those boys were horrendously let down by the system. The fact that the Aunt could not cope with them is a great pity as this "wasted" the crucial early years of them being removed from the parents (these formative years are crucial in a child's development) and what happened (or didn't happen next) is well detail in the link you provided. The fact that the Freeing Order was not revoked was an oversight but I don't see how it would have made any difference at all to the fact that a series of foster carers were unable to cope with the challenging behaviour of the boys (brought about of course by their experiences)

Spero has given a detailed and precise response to some of the reasons why the boys were failed by the LA, and so I don't propose to duplicate her post, other than to say that I found the evidence of the IRO in the High Court particularly pertinent, describing massive overload of cases. I was saddened to read of the ill treatment of the boys by certain foster carers, and although rare this can sometimes happen. I would say however that the vast majority of foster carers do an excellent job in caring for children for whatever reason cannot be adopted i.e their age (middle years aged children and older) they are part of a large sibling group or children with disabilities.

I see you are posting this LCC case again and again but can I point out that this is ONE case and is not representative of all children in the LA system

I know you find this concept difficult to take on board, but if you really think about it, my assertion is logical is it not?

AngelaDaviesHair · 19/12/2013 13:45

SSHITS: Social Services Hatefulness Investigation Trust.

Seriously bowing out now. My Afro needs fluffing up.

NanaNina · 19/12/2013 13:50

Think this thread will/should probably die out with the end of the year but before I go can I just say that I'm worried about Santa, as he tiptoes into the bedrooms of little children at midnight when the house is all in darkness and the parents are sleeping. He even tiptoes near babies' cots and SO he could snatch a few of them and put them in his sleigh (cus he's magic - he could fit in quite a few) and fly them off to Lapland and whilst I have no knowledge of Finnish law, I'd like to bet they could be adopted by New Years Day.

I haven't got any stats to demonstrate how many children are moved between more than 2 foster homes, but I do have my Christmas card list that I could e mail to anyone interested, cus it's got columns and names and numbers and everything...........

Spero · 19/12/2013 13:59

Nana, seriously, don't waste your energy.

What motivates him is nothing to do with children and what they need.

He, like Ian Josephs and Booker are rather motivated by outrage that the role of the man as patriarch and controller of the family is challenged by the state.

In their world, children are their possessions, to be treated as they see fit. The state may only intervene, they grudgingly accept, on proof that a criminal offence has been committed against a child.

If I am wrong about this then, before this thread dies its well deserved death, JH will finally once and for all dissaociate himself from IJ and his recommendation that sexual abuse of children is not reported to the state.

BoreOfWhabylon · 19/12/2013 14:55

I would really like JH to read this thread about a baby that was snatched from its mother by Social Services immediately it was born and placed with foster parents, where it languished until it was eventually adopted.

I would really, really like him to read it. But I doubt he will.

CarpeVinum · 19/12/2013 14:59

Oh god that thread makes me cry.

Amazing woman. Absolutly amazing. And so unaware that she was.

NanaNina · 19/12/2013 15:08

You are so right Spero - mind I've been heartened by this thread with so many of us challenging him again and again and his allies have gone to ground. We've had some fun along the way and some of the posts from all you witty, eloquent women have made me smile a lot!

And NO BoW of course he won't read the thread, and even if he did he would still manage to twist the facts to suit his conspiracy theory. After all the mother of the baby could have become drug free in say a couple of years (as we all know the prognosis for drug abuse is very good.........!) and then she could have the baby back, or it might take a bit longer, but that wouldn't matter in his mind because he cares not for the children, only for cases that he thinks proves his conspiracy theory. The fact that they never do prove it makes not one jot of difference to him, so brick walls and banging heads comes to mind. It's nice when we stop.

Can I wish all of you wonderful women on this thread (with one or two notable exceptions) a very Happy Christmas and I'm sure we will meet again at some point in 2014.

CarpeVinum · 19/12/2013 15:11

Merry Christmas Nana.

It's the 19th! Holy Tattered Tinsel Batman!!

Crap!!

nennypops · 19/12/2013 15:13

breaching a court order by posting the names of 3 minors on mumsnet

And, can I emphasise, that means (a) committing a criminal offence, namely contempt of court; and (b) putting MN at considerable risk because their site was used for the purpose.

nennypops · 19/12/2013 15:17

NanaNina: Before I go can I just say that I'm worried about Santa, as he tiptoes into the bedrooms of little children at midnight when the house is all in darkness and the parents are sleeping. He even tiptoes near babies' cots and SO he could snatch a few of them and put them in his sleigh (cus he's magic - he could fit in quite a few) and fly them off to Lapland and whilst I have no knowledge of Finnish law, I'd like to bet they could be adopted by New Years Day.

Why would he limit himself to cots? Surely he could also hack them out of their mothers' wombs with the aid of his evil social worker goblins.

BoreOfWhabylon · 19/12/2013 15:20

See, it was planned before the baby was even born - no doubt to meet the Adoption Targets.

A Happy Christmas to you too NanaNina

Thanks so much to (nearly) all the contributors on this thread, I'm looking forward to the updates and hoping that there will be some hoisting on petards when chickens come home to roost

CarpeVinum · 19/12/2013 15:23

**

...with real style!

A+

We like. Grin

BoreOfWhabylon · 19/12/2013 15:28
Xmas Grin
YoniMatopoeia · 19/12/2013 15:30

I came to all of this rather late, but Merry Christmas to you all. Great work.

Wine Thanks

CarpeVinum · 19/12/2013 15:35

Does anybody know where I might have hidden carefully put away my fairy lights from 2 Christmasses ago ?

Nooooooooo !

Forgot this was kitten's first Christmas with a tree!

Oh well, will use superglue to put it back together.

Spero · 19/12/2013 15:35

The gas fitter just rang! he is coming to check my appliance!

CarpeVinum · 19/12/2013 15:39

Run Spero run!

I hear Portugal is nice this time of the year.

johnhemming · 19/12/2013 17:12

I am, in fact, only arguing that the system goes wrong .about a third of the time. The logical conclusion is that it does the right thing 2/3rds of the time.

All systems will make mistakes, but I think an error rate of 33% is too high.

I have previously said that I believe offences against children should be reported to the police.

scottishmummy · 19/12/2013 17:39

What view does your party whip take of your opinions,and communication on this topic?