Child taken by from womb by forced C/S for social services! II

[saragossa2010]

As the other is full.
There are far too many cases where the authorities rush to remove children and do not give both parents and wider family a say. Adoption is rushed through.
The fact a senior family judge is insisting he is involved in the rest of this case is a good thing and the more cases like this which receive publicity the better.

The point is it is like justice in China and Russia. If it's secret then those involved cannot justify themselves. If we have more in the public domain that is a greater good than any risk from disclosure to the children and parents involved. it is why open justice and published judgments and rights for all those involved in child disputes to use twitter, blogs and emails and no stifling of free speech.

Thankfully things are all moving this way and we lucky to have people like JM and C Booker to give publicity to the issues which need much wider debate. I would imagine most social workers and lawyers involved in this area are very happy that the issues get more public debate not less. Most professions would.

john you may not have broken any laws but divulging personal comments from an email is a gross breach of trust and I would be feeling very betrayed if I was her that you have chosen to post them to all and sundry in a fit of bravado

john as an MP and campaigner surely you have a duty of care to not parade vulnerable people to further your own cause? It may not be illegal but that doesn't make it the morally right thing to do.

"Article n. 7 of the Charter of the Fundamental Rights of the European Union:
Everyone has the right to respect for his or her private life and family life, home and communication"

Therefore, if JH and the Telegraph have no special written agreement with the lady, they are in breach of that article.

Did it come across your mind what you have exposed this woman to

It would have taken little time to research bipolar prior to thrusting her into the spotlight and discover that this kind of intense public scrutiny is a very powerful trigger for relaspse. Which could end in her losing her contact with her older two.

She now has no anonimity. Which means very many people know who her children are. Italian SS are not likely to be unperturbed by that change in thentatus quo. Not from the perspective of the children's welfare, and niether from the risk that a high possibility of destablisation could case more arm to the children at the grandparents and they may only find out it hah happened when the local media reported it as locals race to report events to the meida rather than SS.

Why on earth was there no attempt to clarify details and make a risk assessmen for the mother in terms of the frgility of her mental health before thristing her into the spotlight ?

I have not come away with the impression that niether children nor parents matter very much to some, not when self publicity and profile raising are on the table.

Ignore, ignore people. This kind of concrete thinking and inability to answer questions makes the discussion pointless.

Oh and confirmation bias too re adoption.

Some repulsive exploitation of a psychologically fragile person. Just because a section is lifted doesn't mean a person is psychologically well enough to fully understand the dance with the devil they has entered into re those who seek to gain attention off their backs. My clients might 'authorise' me to quote their emails or personal correspondence on a bloody chat forum but I would never do it because I have ethics and some sense of and responsibility for the psychological long game.

Feel soiled even being on the same thread I'm off to do something that really helps others. Not swell headed grandstanding.

Thought so. It looks like the Italian government may intervene, but that does not seem certain.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10498682/Italian-government-to-step-into-Alessandra-Pacchieri-adoption-battle.html

"The Italian government is preparing to intervene in the growing legal row over Alessandra Pacchieri, the mother whose baby was forcibly delivered by caesarean section under secret on the orders of a British court.

Senior judges in London have been informed that Italy has instructed its own legal team and is considering taking part in a potential last-minute challenge to plans to have Ms Pacchieri’s baby adopted in the UK."

...

The following is about her lawyers, not the Italian government's lawyers

"Her lawyers have accused the British authorities of effectively misleading them about her options."

...

"Miss Pacchieri’s lawyer, Stefano Oliva, said he had constantly updated the Italian authorities on developments in the UK but had no indication of action until the High Court disclosure.

“Until now, I’ve not received from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs or the Consulate so much as a line or a phone call,” he said.

“They appear not to have done anything.

“It’s only thanks to the press and to the passion of John Hemming, MP, that the case of Alessandra, an Italian citizen, is finally receiving the attention that it deserves.”

Maria Edera Spadoni, a member of the Italian Parliament, said that she raised the issue in the chamber on Tuesday but had also had no formal response.

“ It is unbelievable that I have to learn this from an English journalist about something that my government is doing, it is absolutely unbelievable ,” she said. "

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10498682/Italian-government-to-step-into-Alessandra-Pacchieri-adoption-battle.html

Until now, I’ve not received from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs or the Consulate so much as a line or a phone call

That is incredible. Government of the people, by the people, for the people.

@claig ahem.... NO. Italian government has always been of itself, by itself and for itself. Otherwise Berlusconi couldn't have ruled against the Italian people for 20 years.

Please don't post rubbish articles anymore claig. Maria E. Spadoni is one of the M5 nutcases.... So unless you are one of Ukip supporters, leave the M5s alone.

@claig

The article posted on The Telegraph is the same posted by the Telegraph for three days in a row, with different headlines.

Or do you think they wouldn't have defended their outlook on the whole story?

The Daily Mail and The Telegraph are posting and recycling old articles with no news on the Italian front. I checked local papers this morning and there were no updates

I don't know who M5 are?
I thought it was some sort of BMW.

This news about the Italian government intervention only came to light because of the following

"Details of the Italian involvement were disclosed by Alex Verdan CQ, representing Essex County Council at a High Court hearing to discuss whether Miss Pacchieri could be named.

He said: “I have been informed that solicitors in London have been instructed by the Italian state or government to intervene in proceedings.”

We don't yet know how serious the Italian government will be because as Alessandra's lawyer said, up to now

“They appear not to have done anything."

But they may be forced to act due to the international publicity and if MPs from the M5 (and I don't know who they are) start asking questions which will force them to give some answers.

'I checked local papers this morning and there were no updates'

Give it time. The M5 MPs may change all that.

Just looked up the M5. They are populist, libertarian and anti-corruption which is like UKIP, but where they differ from UKIP is that they are environmentalists in favour of a policy of "degrowth" (which is what elites across the world want). So they don't sound very good to me.

The M5 are the butt of all jokes in Italy.... Yes, worse than Berlusconi.

It is like saying that Mike Myers had been elected as Prime Minister....

Honestly Claig, your arguments are so devoid of... Anything that any time I reply to you I am not able to engage in any kind of conversation....

I'd have more results speaking to a wall... Wait, maybe that is what I will do.

Re: the Italian involvement - the Telegraph copied and pasted Italian news of December 3rd and did it badly because no Foreign Minister or embassy is involved - if you want to continue to fall for their lies and tricks, you are very well welcome

Have a nice day ladies ;)

'It is like saying that Mike Myers had been elected as Prime Minister....'

Have you never heard of Gordon Brown?

It is astonishing to me that the Italian government are only now considering an intervention. Either it was appropriate to intervene (in which case they should have done it much earlier) or it was not, in which case why do it now? Is this just populist grandstanding because the media has got hold of it?

Well, since he hasn't directly said it, I will

Bubble wrapped children is a very good book, which describes and explains beautifully about the effects of chaotic birth family life on children, the fact that "forced adoption" (ie. adoption without consent) happens because children can't be cared for by their birth families (NOT because they have been snatched in a conspiracy), describes all the massive problems the BP's might have that lead to adoption, frequently using the desciptor "toxic parents"...and that emotional teenage reunions by very vulnerable teens are frequently disastrous and damaging to the child, who far from being helped by reuniting, is further traumatised and hurt by contact. The contact frequently ends really badly, and is devastating for the children

None of that supports any of JH's, CB's or IJ's belief in child snatching and lovey dovey happily ever afters when the wronged family get back together

Agreed Angela

I highly doubt the Italian government are going to do anything at all

It's a shame the italian authorities didnt step in much earlier, their silence on this case so far has been appalling.

Xposted with Angela

That wouldn't be unusual at all in this country!

I think the Italian government may not have wanted to do anything but they may now be under pressure as the press begin to expose the case to the light of publicity.

I don't think we have heard the final word about this.

@Angela the Italian authorities, the major ones, are not intervening at all.
La Farnesina is the Foreign Office in Italy. On their official sources this case is not even mentioned.

Unfortunately, that is what Telegraph and JH wants to make audiences to believe... That their actions brought this case to attention, therefore they made their right decision in outing the woman.

LakeDistrictBabe, you could be right, but it has been reported that

"Details of the Italian involvement were disclosed by Alex Verdan CQ, representing Essex County Council at a High Court hearing to discuss whether Miss Pacchieri could be named."

So it looks like something has changed. How serious the change really is, we don't yet know.

@ClaireTravellingCircus

I wouldn't call it appalling, I would call it suspicious. Indeed it is strange and I wonder why the all situation is so "amazingly unprecedented" and nobody even went to the press for a single statement...

@claig as above, again.... It is a statement done by a British official source. There is no counterpart statement. Complete silence on the Italian front.