Child taken by from womb by forced C/S for social services! II

[saragossa2010]

As the other is full.
There are far too many cases where the authorities rush to remove children and do not give both parents and wider family a say. Adoption is rushed through.
The fact a senior family judge is insisting he is involved in the rest of this case is a good thing and the more cases like this which receive publicity the better.

The point is it is like justice in China and Russia. If it's secret then those involved cannot justify themselves. If we have more in the public domain that is a greater good than any risk from disclosure to the children and parents involved. it is why open justice and published judgments and rights for all those involved in child disputes to use twitter, blogs and emails and no stifling of free speech.

Thankfully things are all moving this way and we lucky to have people like JM and C Booker to give publicity to the issues which need much wider debate. I would imagine most social workers and lawyers involved in this area are very happy that the issues get more public debate not less. Most professions would.

I'm also wondering what those of the JH think would have happened to this lady if she'd stayed in Italy. We know that she's been hospitalised three times there because of her illness, so there's really no doubt that would have happened again. We know that the Italian health authorities are, if anything, keener than we are on C-sections after previous C-sections, so again the strong likelihood is that that also would have happened again, and without the mother's consent, because she was in no state to give it. We know the Italians are highly unlikely to have considered her able to look after the baby, because they hadn't in relation to the older children. Her parents would still not have been willing to take the baby, and she still wouldn't have been able to go to the "aunt" in America because she's not a relative. So she would have gone into foster care and stayed there.

But JH wouldn't have had a word to say about any of that, because it would give no opportunity to further his campaign. So in that respect at least the mother would have been a great deal better off.

Maryz, bwahahaha I had time to read them though :D

@nennypops I agree. If the lady has gone back to Italy, he had to look for other cases to bring shame upon the whole ss system. Because I guess that is his mission, regardless of who is involved and what citizenship they have.

I'm quite that posts of JH's where he has directly threatened others haven't been deleted.

I really hope his threats to me are not deleted. I haven't reported them and I hope no one else does.

It is vitally important that people have a chance to judge this man for who he really is.

I find it astonishing that so few commentators and journalists were aware of his activities in this field when this story broke. That is why they went along with his sensationalist drivel.

As he says, if the family court system is corrupt and broken, we absolutely must shine a light on it and bring injustice to the open.

And I say ditto JH, ditto.

I love how JH is being all "what about the poor woman".

Yes, what about the poor woman JH? What about the poor woman who is obviously very unwell and very vulnerable who is now being dragged through the press (something just known to help mental health )? All this in her best interest is it? Especially misrepresenting the severity of her mental illness when she's got a history of refusing medication - because talking about "just a panic attack" is totally going to help her accept that she needs the meds

What about all the other vulnerable individuals with mental illness who read this bullshit and are too scared to get the help they need? Or the children of these people who would benefit from parents who were supported rather than struggling on alone? Is that the way you think children should have to grow up, watching their parents get more and more ill rather than getting help? Who does that benefit?

But no, you carry right on banging your little drum, who cares what effect it has on vulnerable people. Maybe you'll get lucky and more of them will get so ill that there is no choice but to move the children to somewhere safer, then they could come to you right? You'll care then won't you.

@Maryz in Italy once the court decides you are not fit to be a parent, it takes years to overrule that decision. It is unlikely that the child would have been in her care anyway.

@MurderofGoths I agree with every single word you said! Poor woman? If they cared about the poor woman they could solve everything without going to the papers! I don't think she needed that publicity!
What kind of life would she lead in Italy once she has back the child? :/

The truth is that nobody cared about her at all.

johnhemming your asking what about the poor mother but what about the poor child?

What the mother has gone through is my worst nightmare and I have every sympathy with her but her mh issues have stopped her providing a stable environment for 2 children already.

The child has one opportunity for a happy childhood and all this press intrusion is lowering the chance of the child finding a happy stable home. I think it's the child who needs to be put first.

I'm also disgusted that an mp is happy to take public money as a salary but seems to be nothing to improve services for their own constituents.

claw I agree with what your saying and I hope that greater transparency would offer protection to all those involved in the family courts

I'm also wondering what those of the JH think would have happened to this lady if she'd stayed in Italy

Havng given birth here I think anybody who is very keen on making their own choices when giving birth might want to consider going elsewhere for lablour and delivery So I think the chance of her having had a VBAC here even if she had been the picture of mental good healh are slim.

It is possible that SS would have recommended adoption here, given that a kin placement isn't available and they have removed the older two from her care. However they may have equally gone in for long term forstering.

However a mixed race child might have been a lot harder to place here, so regardless of what SS decided she could have eneded up in an insititution long term. Instead of national service my husband worked in children's home here. It was part of his job to take the children for visits home and bring them back. He left the service in favour of early adoption rather than give parents chance after chance to the extent that their kids are left in a painful limbo he wouldn't wish on anybody.

It's not that Italians are nasty racists while British people are lovely tolerant people. But this was a monocultural country until pretty recently. It won't take as long to come through the period of strong change and catch up as it were. But it's early days yet, think sort of 1970s in this regard, and the child's heritage could have proved an additional complication in terms of limiting choices for where she was placed and her future options as an adult.

I know about the mother. I presume the child is not as yet that communicative, but given that around 50% of children put through forced adoption contact their birth families in teenage years (according to "bubble wrapped children") I am not sure that the child will be happy with the way the child has been treated in the future.

Hi there

We've had an enormous number of reports about this thread and need to have a look into it.

So we're going to lock it now while we do that.

PLEASE DON'T start another one - if we see that another one has popped up we'll most probably delete it.

Thanks
MNHQ

I have c+ped the whole thread and emailed it back to myself.

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your reports and apologies for having to close the thread to give us a chance to catch up with them.

We've now been through and deleted personal attacks and posts which we felt were beyond the pale. If you would like us to take a second look at anything please do report it to us.

Going forward we'd really appreciate it if you could stick to discussing the case, as opposed to folks' personal details. We know that issues like these can provoke strong emotions, but if you could try to keep these in check so far as talk guidelines go, we'd be really grateful.

I presume the child is not as yet that communicative, but given that around 50% of children put through forced adoption contact their birth families in teenage years (according to "bubble wrapped children") I am not sure that the child will be happy with the way the child has been treated in the future

Fantastic book. Perhaps John, you'd like to explain to everyone what that book is about, and what it says about these teenage reunions? No?

www.bubblewrappedchildren.co.uk/

All I am saying is that adoption is not a panacea. I am in touch with an adoptive family (one of the families where I wrote the appeal for them because they could not get legal aid - at that point - and they won the appeal) who wish to talk publicly about the problems with adoption, but have from time to time been gagged. The gag was slightly lifted recently.

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2013/B21.html

What tends to happen with appeals that I assist with is that i write the original documentation and get PTA and then funding turns up to get lawyers to do things. On that basis I have won 2 cases in the Civil Court of Appeal, one in Criminal Court of Appeal. I have won other cases as well. In the RP case I did get admissability which is actually quite rare. The appeal to the grand chamber was out of time because of funding problems.

Other problem with adoption include disruption although it is true that this is less of a problem for younger children.

JH the more you post, the more I report you.

You are breaking this child mother's human rights more than anyone else could have ever done. Thanks to the publicity you gave the case, this mother and this child won't ever have any peace, anywhere.

Thanks a million for your comprehension in posting details of the lady and her emails too.

I have some difficulty with the concept that posting details of an email in which she says: "i am really thankful for all you are doing" abuses her human rights. I had previously agreed in writing a statement from her thanking the British people.

What human right does it breach when someone wants to thank the british people and that is reported?

Which article of the European Convention?

Did it come across your mind what you have exposed this woman to or you are still living in some kind of British bubble?

As soon as it comes out that you were actually exploiting the desperation of this woman for your political agenda, how does that play with the European Commission for Human rights?

Mmm... We will see. The mother of the child is a fellow citizen and Tuscan for me, you have no idea what harm you caused her.