ISRAEL: WHEN WILL THE WEST DO SOMETHING?

[donnie]

Am I alone in feeling outraged that Blair et al have said and done nothing about Israel's incursion into Gaza following the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier?

I have been very outspoken on MN about my opposition to the Israeli Government in the past and make no bones about the fact that I do regard it as verging on being a rogue state. Their sustained oppression of the Palestinians is repulsive to me and I see them as legitimised terrorists.

Opinions please.

Also something else has irked me today. The EU has offered 15 million euros for relief work in Lebanon.
Why should our funds be diverted to pay for Israels unnecessary destruction. Not that I object for one minute to helping the million plus displaced Lebanese people survive this crisis, but that we should be expected to mop up the destruction caused by another countrys disproportionate aggression.

yes totally agree Piffle.

I just had an email form the Red Cross and donated quite a lot of money. They are doing a great job despite being bombed and shot at by Israel. Agree Israel should be tried for war crimes.

Also the bombing of the red cross ambulances using the hellfire missiles - which are fired from apache helicopters, which means the pilot saw and still shot
Outraged ... thatreally is indefensible

One change that I find interesting is the change in coverage by the BBC. Their standard approach is:
Full coverage of every Israeli casualty showing the scene, their name etc. The Arab casualties are normally dismissed as "and some Palestinians died".

But not any more.

Obviously the media is never going to equate the value of a Jewish life with a rag head, but maybe if Israel kills enough people, maybe the message will sink in.

Donnie, you support Hamas & Hezbollah because they help the people? ... which implies you support terrorism too. Nice one. Did you know that you can support a people (Palestinians, Lebanese) without supporting the political agenda of thier leaders. Hitler did lots for the average Germans in the 1930's which I guess is what the appeasers thought too (and no, I'm not comparing their political goals, just this blind support).

I know I'm going to regret posting this as this whole discussion is a minefield I best stay away from!

Reading Donnie's post she does not support Hezbollah.

juls you certainly did not read my post as joelally points out, plus I have made it clear throughout this thread that there is really no difference between the Group Hamas and the Israeli government. Why is Hamas a 'terrorist' group, but the Israeli govt not? they are both democratically elected legitimate bodies. It is all a matter of perception it seems, and my personal view is that the israeli govt , of the two, is the terrorist group.

Your posting proves that if you hear something enough times you will believe it.This is why GWB routinely refers to Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran...as dominated by 'terrorists' and after a while people do indeed regard pretty much all Arab and Islamic countries as 'Terrorists'.

It's like bloody newspeak and it works, sadly.

PS ask a great many Palestinians and Lebanese and they will emphatically state their support for Hamas and to a lesser extent Hizbullah too. Does that make all of them terrorists too?

no, there is a difference between hamas and the israeli govt: Hamas regularly targets obvious civilians (eg bombs on busses and in pizzarias). the israeli army only accidentally kills lots of civilians and targets civilian infrastructure.

It's a bloody good thing they don't target civilians though when they are so much better tooled up.

How many Palestinian school children have been "accidentally" shot on their way to school by Israeli soldiers?

well, 'accidental' is one view. Not necessarily one I share.

don't get me wrong - I think Isreal's position this time is utterly indefensible. but they don't deliberatly target civilians (although, yes, sometimes rogue soldiers do and yes, sometimes civilians get hit anyway and then israel tries to cover it up). that does make them different from hamas imo.

i'm afraid i think the idea that Israel only 'accidentally' kill civilians is one in name only - it is hard to accept that claim in light of recent events.

DomConnor, I have noticed the news coverage too. On Sky the other day it was crazy, they had pictures of a Katyusha hitting HAifa and damaging a small building, no injured people. Showed the obvious distress of the local people
Meanwhile a ticker across the bottom noted that 64 Lebanese died in the bombings the night before, two red cross ambulances and a refugee convoy were targetted...
I was
Now I find only CH4 asking the big questions of the right people. Although bbc news 24 is getting better. Sky is atrocious at times though.

maybe you're right.

Other than that point though there is no difference between Israel and Hamas anyway though I do agree on that. I am having a very hard time trying to understand why the uk govt won't ban exports of arms to Israel. just when I didn't think blair coud sink any lower.

When is the next election? Never thought I'd say this but I hope Labour lose by an unprecedented landslide - something that puts Blair in the history books.

Yes and it is well known that Israel ahve targetted civilians in Gaza. Young boys thrwoing rocks at the tanks? Answered with tank fire. 7 young boys (or future suicide bombers as Sharon called them at the time) killed.
The international peaceworkes killed, depite being with hands up and in red cross/UN dress.
Neither side can pretend to be innocent in all of this.
I mean imagine if England had bombed Ireland because of the IRA targetting civilians in England...
that conflict of nothing else shows one thing.
Where there is a WILL, there is a way
Both sides have to move, both sides have to compromise
But firstly both sides have to TALK to each other and that is the very start which is not hpapening yet. Fundamental missing link.

And then the irony of asking/demanding Iran not to arm Hizbollah...

the next election won't involve blair though will it? so he can do what he likes.

oh damn, that's probably why he doesn't care about public opinion.

Bombing infrastructure surely is targeting civilians?

Saadia - great idea. You've a very short memory if you think the Tories would have done things any differently in foreign policy terms.

Yes I'm sure you're right Greensleeves. But what do you do when an elected govt goes totally againt the wishes of the vast majority of the population?

"Israel is like a lamb surrounded by wolves"

I have just re-read this thread and this particular offering stands out as being truly vomit inducing!