Oscar Pistorious Pt3

[bunchamunchycrunchycarrots]

Hope no one else has started this.

I do think that the Steenkamps made those original statements whilst they were still in shock and numb from disbelief.

I think they will now naturally be angry and if the Pistorius PR machine continues to make those sort of comments as above they will not be as "compliant" in the media. It is sad that every time a statement is made by OP's side the press will be hounding the Steenkamps for a response .

puffpants I wondered the same re:lost in translation type of thin.

Yeah I understand that Armchair.

The whole thing is really grim.

flippinada if he's innocent (of premeditation) then why shouldn't he be shown in the best possible light (and I stress 'possible' ie under the circumstances)?

He's held his hands up to the fact that he did kill her, and his devastation at that and the pain he caused her and her family is well documented. He's not making excuses for his actions - just saying that he made a terrible error in mistaking her for an intruder. Hindsight must be particularly cruel for him.

And of course none of this takes away from the tragedy of loss of a life.

flippinada it does seem that the quote about "forgiveness" is everywhere on the web. Not the part where Mr Steenkamp talks about him suffering if he is lying etc.

Also OP's website has apparently had a "mourning" makeover.

Sadly I think there will now be a lot of influence over the media by the big hitting PR firms until trial comes. They will be storing up any "forgiveness" type statements to put forward as a reason not to give a prison sentence for culpable homicide if he gets off of or a deal is done before trial premeditated murder.

Of course that is just a subjective view.

I could just be really cynical.

Does anyone know, just out of curiosity why OP is estranged from his father?

His parent's divorced when he was 6. Maybe he had little contact until his mother died when he was 15. Sounds like he needed a good father figure around (perhaps that was why the uncle seems to be taking centre stage now)

When OP's parents divorced his father took off to run a mine in the other side of the country, so whilst the Pistorius children did have contact it was only really at holidays and then the boys went off to boarding school. Pretoria boys.
It's all in his autobiography.

Wiley, I have read quotes of him saying his dad wasn't around much when he was growing up (after his parents' divorce) and that he thinks of him as a "mate" not a parent. Sounds a bit cool rather than estranged.

I was just looking up interviews with OP on youtube and he is clearly bilingual but I expect the family speak Afrikaans mainly. You can tell English is a second language for uncle and I think that would account for the slightly clunky speech at times.

Ah ok, maybe the word estranged was more the papers dramatic inclination it was the daily mail after all!

Unless there is some convincing forensic evidence that contradicts what we've already heard (like mobile phone records or balistics or something) I find it very hard to understand how the premeditation can be upheld - there must surely be enough 'reasonable doubt' that he intended to kill her? Even if his story is 'hard to understand' (or words to that effect) it doesn't mean that it didn't happen and unless they can provide evidence to the contrary they'll surely have to downgrade the charge?

I actually wish I didn't know that about the website. That's awful.

Cleo I understand what you're saying, however I will respectfully disagree with you.

My opinion is that, right now, how he feels and what he wants to do is immaterial compared to what her family are going through. Right now he should keep his feelings to himself. And that should mean no updates from his family about how his feelings as well.

The time for talks and forgiveness, should it come to that, is certainly not a scant few days after he has killed their daughter.

Presumably nothing could be more valuable to the defence than some sort of indication from Reeva S's family, however vague, that they accept his version of events.
I have to say that her family have conducted themselves with astonishing dignity under the circumstances.

I, like some other posters, am going with OP's version of events until the trial (although am mindful that this may be wrong), and I am interested in his welfare, however now is not the time for his people to court the media, feed. snippets of information etc - inappropriate and in bad taste, IMO.

If there is any reaching out to the Steenkamp family, it should be conducted in private.

A family has lost their daughter, another family has enough to come to terms with behind its own closed doors.

Read what's in the papers with a pinch of salt. Wait for the trial.

Well said Jill.

Is there anyone else who find the Pistorius family fishy especially the brother Carl? Reeva's family on the other hand have been dignified and lack of media "handling"

First, there is the prayer meeting in court (pre planned for sure) for the benefit of the cameras (remember they have an ex Sun journo as a spin adviser) - why not do that in private??

Second, there is the fact that very shortly after the murder, Carl Pistorius, Lawyer and locksmith turn up to look for memory stick with details off shore accounts - something the mag said the bungling Botha should have kept from them using force of law

Third, Carls' tweets from court saying prosecution is lying ...what the hell does he think a prosecution job is...they have to put the case seeking the case for murder if they have sufficient evidence and even the mag who gave him bail kept charge at section 6 premeditated murder ...instead of reducing it to murder

Fourth, the story that was put out early on to the press that he disturbed a burglar which police then refuted and said it must have come from the family

Fifth, early statements by family that he did not belong on police cell with other criminals...what?? he had just killed someone in cold blood...why would he not be held in jail until brought to court o the determination of the charge like anyone else ...would they say that if thr dead woman had been OP's sister killed by her BF in similar circumstances?

None of OP's family know what really happened - they were not there or what forensics and witness statements will say yet - only OP knows..rest will be up to the state to show beyond a reasonable doubt

By the way, the lawyer they hired will represent the devil- he represented apartheid police chief ...but here he was given a gift with bungling Botha...hopefully now he is off the case, state will get its act together for the actual trial and as the mag said state case is not resting on Botha

Oscar looked sombre even when he got bail...for sure his lawyer advised him how he should act in court all along...but he may also know there's other evidence that may damn him when this finally comes to trial. The man is unhinged in my view, even from reading articles before this happened, he had an unhealthy obsession with guns, and not just because he lived in SA. I know some middle class folk in US who admitted having a gun, but it was not common and they were a little embarrassed about it ...and kept it under lock and key. OP on other hand showed of about them, talked about having a machine gun, and kept his gun apparently out on the open next to his designer watch etc. His handling a gun in restaurant that accidentally discharged also underlines this. That is not normal.

This is the bit I really don't get ...when his lawyer said it was pitch black in the room - how come he managed to find his gun in the pitch black, and having passed the bed 2 - 3 times, did not know Reeva was there when collecting it or try to warn her...rather than going to the toilet after getting the gun and then shouting to her from there as he claims...it does it add up any way you look at it

My take is, they argued long and hard, he completely lost it and threatened her perhaps with the gun, she ran to the toilet, locked herself in, he screamed at her to come out, she refused and he shot 3/4 times at the toilet door in furious rage...he knows guns and must have known that may kill her but by then the red mist had descended and he then realized he had actually killed her and broke door down and (this is possible) felt sudden remorse at what he had done to her and to his own life ... imo, that is not culpable homicide but premeditated murder ...story of burglar was made up very quickly either by him or someone he rang as soon as he realized what he did and he is sticking to it

But then let's wait to see if the forensics and witness statements at the trial bear this out ...

fyi, I am not going by what was said in papers...but what was said thus far in bail hearing...

wrt why RS didn't scream (assuming she didn't and op's version of events is true), remember he had shouted that there was an intruder, or had shouted for said intruder to get out. She was in the bathroom behind a locked door with no line of sight, therefore, she wouldn't have been aware whether the gunshots had come from either OP or an intruder (remember intruders in SA do come armed) so may not have cried out even when hit so as not to give away her whereabouts.

i meant his version does not add up anyway you look at it

So if he thought there was an intruder and she was still in bed ....why did he wait to go all the way to the bathroom to scream at her ..."Reeva call the police" apparently before he shot rather than try to wake her quickly and quietly when he was gathering the gun by the bedside (apparently in the pitch black?)

she wouldn't have been aware whether the gunshots had come from either OP or an intruder (remember intruders in SA do come armed) so may not have cried out even when hit so as not to give away her whereabouts

Would you really be able to hold a stream of pain in if you were shot?

Someone earlier said he would not have heard her scream over the sound of the gun discharging? Or perhaps the first shot was a fatal one.

Currentbuns...totally totally agree with your view...great for defence if they can get Reeva's family onside...bad press for them if Reeva's family express doubts about OP's version

Wrt not being able to see if Reeva was in bed even with lights off, its unusual to not be able to see anything in a room, moonlight? Street lighting etc, it was not too dark was OP to locate the fan, with the intention of bringing it in plugging in etc. I`m sure when he heard the noise instinct would be to look to see if she is there.

His brother has said that his twitter account was hacked, I must admit I raised my eyebrows a little at that. Have just seen the full statement from Reeva`s father, very painful, dignified but it reads as though they dont believe it was an accident.

"Is there anyone else who find the Pistorius family fishy especially the brother Carl? Reeva's family on the other hand have been dignified and lack of media "handling"" The family are not on trial here. I don't know about them but tbh they might be nice people, they might not, but fact is that OP is used to being in the media spotlight and as such his family probably are to an extent as well. but I think that people will seek to judge them because they are defending him/believe him to be innocent. RS' family on the other hand will know all too well that to become involved with the media at all will mean being hounded by them, not just the SA press but the international press. Keeping quiet is by far the best thing they can do in this instance. It's not necessarily about being "dignified" as much as self preservation.

"First, there is the prayer meeting in court (pre planned for sure) for the benefit of the cameras (remember they have an ex Sun journo as a spin adviser) - why not do that in private??" The Afrikaaners are very big on religion and public displays thereof, I don't find that strange on the whole tbh.

"Second, there is the fact that very shortly after the murder, Carl Pistorius, Lawyer and locksmith turn up to look for memory stick with details off shore accounts - something the mag said the bungling Botha should have kept from them using force of law" South African police are notoriously corrupt. if I had money I would be wanting details of it to be kept from them as well not to hide anything but to stop them potentially getting their hands on it. (and yes, bribery and blackmail l and the like is notoriously rife).

"Third, Carls' tweets from court saying prosecution is lying ...what the hell does he think a prosecution job is...they have to put the case seeking the case for murder if they have sufficient evidence and even the mag who gave him bail kept charge at section 6 premeditated murder ...instead of reducing it to murder" I didn't read the tweets, but looking at the evidence given by the investigation it was at best incompetant and for all we know, entirely made up....?

"Fourth, the story that was put out early on to the press that he disturbed a burglar which police then refuted and said it must have come from the family" iirc the story that was put out was exactly that which has been offered as the defense - that he thought it was an intruder which turned out to be his gf. The rest i.e. that it was his gf coming to surprise him for valentines was just made up by the press I think. But the police saying that the story of a supposed intruder hadn't come from them just sounds like more incompetance on their part IMO.

"Fifth, early statements by family that he did not belong on police cell with other criminals...what?? he had just killed someone in cold blood...why would he not be held in jail until brought to court o the determination of the charge like anyone else ...would they say that if thr dead woman had been OP's sister killed by her BF in similar circumstances?" South African jails have to be seen to be believed. Rape and infection with HIV is commonplace, OP would have his prosthetics removed as they would be considered weapons and would have to be in a wheelchair, so being made more vulnerable coupled with the fact he is already so well known would make him more of a victim, and he hasn't actually been found guilty yet, so I think that's a fair point tbh.

Sorry, heres the Statement
"There are only two people who really know what happened and it's Oscar Pistorius and the Lord,"
"It does not matter how much money he has and how good his legal team is, he must live with his conscience if he allows his legal team to lie on his behalf.
"But if he speaks the truth, I can perhaps some day forgive him.
"If it did not happen as he has told it, he must suffer.
"And he will suffer ... only he knows."

yes, again, they should recreate scene...look at bedroom at that time of night, was there street lights or moonlight ...with night vision view...he had not just woken up also. Also, his bed is very low, so even without prosthetics with night vision he could have seen ...he could see enough to find his gun after all