Oscar Pistorious Pt3

[bunchamunchycrunchycarrots]

Hope no one else has started this.

[AmIthatWintry]

Armchair Yes I didn't take to the football player at all that "what's he going to do to me he's got no legs I'm bigger than him attitude". I would guess they did have an altercation but we will never no exactly what was said and who started it.

It was actually well reported at the time, there will be a link somewhere.

OP believed that his girlfriend cheated on him while he was abroad training and then competing at the Olympics.

He challenged the man involved, and apparently swore at him.

This football player - who has a real reputation in SA as a thug - got wind of this and warned OP off, through his friends real playground stuff

Which led to OP phoning him and asking him what his problem was.

All well documented, including the police involvement, and clearly show that with a bit of research, the BBC would have seen the value (or not) of having the ex footballer on.

Incidentally, said footballer claimed that the first time he ever met OP was at the police station after their exchange.

So hardly someone that knew him..........................

[RedPencils]

I wonder why he is so very jumpy
Well he's very wealthy and well known. He's easy to target.
He has a disability which limits his mobility His father is of the opinion that white people are under threat. Violent crime appears to be rife in SA
I can see why he is so jumpy.

But i agree with you on everything else, wouldn't your first instinct be to run away from danger not towards it? Run downstairs and set you alarm off. Go hide somewhere else and call the police.
Even in his version he is so utterly reckless. He shot to kill.

[LandofTute]

As someone said upthread, if he gets away with this then anyone in South Africa can shoot anyone staying or living at their house from now on and get away with it by saying they thought it was an intruder.

[RougePygmy]

He meant to kill someone, firing 4 times into a small space (through a door or not) is not a "warning" especially not when you have had time to go get your gun, walk past your bedroom door (Chance of escape) walk down a small corridor, into the bathroom, then stand in front of the Toilet door.

All the "I hope he is innocent" He is not, he either meant to kill Reeva, or meant to kill someone else. He headed toward the supposed danger, not away from it. And I struggle to believe what noise she was making from when she was down a small hallway (lined with cupboards so could assume would muffle some noise anyway), round a corner and behind a locked door. Yet he failed to hear her getting up?. He had been awake for at least 10 minutes, if he had messed around on the balcony, bring in a fan and whatever else he did, them closed the doors (which had been left open despite his apparent extreme fear of intruders), he has not literally just woken up and his eyes need to adjust to the light, yet he goes to the bed, and fetches his gun, and does not see the bed is empty. So fearful of his and her life, knowing the "intruder" is in the bathroom, why not wake her and get her to sneak out the bedroom door then? Or even into the balcony, no he shouts at her, to announce her presence also to this supposed intruder and does not wonder at all why she does not respond.

And if the below is true, it is only surprising that he has not managed to shoot someone before this.

"Interesting that in the documentary, OP's close childhood friend commented that one night he had stayed over at OP's, he had got up in the middle of the night and made some noise. He looked up to see OP coming round the corner gun in hand."

[mary21]

worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/12/17280386-uncle-tells-of-pistorius-girlfriends-nightmare-during-previous-break-in?lite

Maybe he wanted to prove to her he could protect her. Who knows??
Just hope that all these people I have never met on the other side of the world are OK long term . And some good comes out of it all and a life wasan't thrown away for nothing

[mary21]

Having read through his affadavit and heard the background jumpiness when he has heard unexpected noises ,I do find myself believing him. I wonder why he is so very jumpy . Not all South Africans are in this state of high alert. What has happened in his past. And even if something has occured before this doesnt give him carte blanche to shoot at a shut door ,no matter how bad the percieved risk on the other side.

I equally well can believe, he was beginning to feel insecure in the relationship, Heat magazine SA were promoting it as the relationship of the year, The relationship would help launch Reeva's career. She met up with an ex. These things could easily through doubts in his mind . He had a red moment. If he didnt have a gun ,she would still be alive and a bit wiser.

I fully believe he had no prior intention to kill her and his pain and remorse is real. I could also fully believe he was suicidal . I know his uncle has said this is not so, But I would almost be surprised if he hasnt had moments when he has been.That moment has destroyed so much in his life and the lives of so many people around him And of course obliterated Reeva's life. And the Lawyers and Journo's get rich.
I must be incredibly hard for the friends who were freinds of both of them .

[RedPencils]

Armchair - that was in the documentary as well wasn't it? Her uncle and cousin I think. Her family are so dignified, I think I'd be spitting blood if she were my sister/daughter/niece.

[ArmchairDetective]

No he still killed someone. He was still reckless. It is still murder. Did he think he was firing warning shots- I don't know. If he shot down at the toilet bowl (as I had heard reported)he may not have been intending to kill but in such a small space extremely high risk.

Just read another story saying that Reeva's had experienced a break in herself. Don't know how good the source of that story is but it quotes her uncle.

worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/12/17280386-uncle-tells-of-pistorius-girlfriends-nightmare-during-previous-break-in?lite

[ArmchairDetective]

The moment is documented at 47.32 if you are interested

[LandofTute]

Interesting that in the documentary, OP's close childhood friend commented that one night he had stayed over at OP's, he had got up in the middle of the night and made some noise. He looked up to see OP coming round the corner gun in hand.
There was also that tweet he made about going into "full combat recon mode" when he heard a noise and thought it was an intruder and it turned out to be washing machine noise.
It does make it seem more likely he thought she was an intruder, although I can't see how he would get away with shooting a supposed intruder through a door.

[ArmchairDetective]

It was when they were interviewing the son of the man he called Uncle Mike (guy with the racehorses). He was basically confirming that he knew Oscar had a gun in the house (normal for a lot of SA) and described the incident briefly.

[MechanicalTheatre]

That documentary was odd. I missed that part about the friend in the house, Armchair.

It's weird seeing Oscar being interviewed before he shot her. He seems so nice, shy, polite...it's very weird for me.

[ArmchairDetective]

You are right Good point. I remembered that he shouted after I posted.
Just trying to make sense of it all.

Interesting that in the documentary, OP's close childhood friend commented that one night he had stayed over at OP's, he had got up in the middle of the night and made some noise. He looked up to see OP coming round the corner gun in hand.

I do think it could have been an accident waiting to happen. Tragic

[GuffSmuggler]

Yes forgetting she was there probably would have been a bit more believable. Remembering she was there but forgetting to check if she was the one actually in the toilet is very baffling.

[RedPencils]

He didn't forget she was there, he ran to the bathroom and shouted for her to call the police (in his version)

[ArmchairDetective]

Columbo I aint.

[WormCanner]

No.

[ArmchairDetective]

Do you think if you had a newish partner and they didn't stay over a lot and you were used to being on your own in your house, you might, when awoken in the middle of the night ,forget they had stayed over?

[ArmchairDetective]

Well the pathologist did say there was no trace of urine at the scene but you are right about your second point

[GuffSmuggler]

Also, if they were up arguing and hadn't have gone to bed at all she might have been to the loo recently anyway, so I don't think it's a very compelling piece of evidence armchair.

[GuffSmuggler]

Sorry might be TMI but the empty bladder thing is a red herring, as someone else upthread said, unfortunately when you die your body's muscles can give way and you soil yourself.

[WormCanner]

Never miss an opportunity, as my gran used to say

But yes, I can imagine a stand-off where she wouldn't come out and he got increasingly angry and frustrated.

[ArmchairDetective]

I'm speculating of course but I suppose I'm thinking if it was happening so quickly, ie they argued, she ran off to the bathroom, he chased after her with or without a gun, I'd be trying to listen to what was going on the other side, shielding myself initially from further attack

but on the other hand if they were arguing through the door for sometime, yes I would go.

Does that make more sense?

[WormCanner]

If I was trying to hide in a toilet to get away from someone I don't think I'd think "I'd might as well have a wee whilst I'm in here"

Why ever not?! I would, if I needed to go. All the more likely if she'd been drinking, and if she was scared.

[ArmchairDetective]

Yes I didn't take to the football player at all that "what's he going to do to me he's got no legs I'm bigger than him attitude". I would guess they did have an altercation but we will never no exactly what was said and who started it.

Although there wasn't much new in that programme ( apart from the ex-It was possible jealousy feelings were running high. I know my exes haven't been too happy when I 've arranged to meet up with old boyfriends despite the fact I've remained friends with most of them. Obviously that doesn't condone what happened but may point towards the fact that there were arguments that evening.

One of the most compelling pieces of evidence was the fact that Reeva had emptied her bladder. I did think this would point towards her getting up to go the loo in the middle of the night rather than going during the middle of the argument whilst running away.

If I was trying to hide in a toilet to get away from someone I don't think I'd think "I'd might as well have a wee whilst I'm in here"