Oscar Pistorious Pt3

[bunchamunchycrunchycarrots]

Hope no one else has started this.

Attny

OP on other hand showed of about them, talked about having a machine gun, and kept his gun apparently out on the open next to his designer watch etc. His handling a gun in restaurant that accidentally discharged also underlines this. That is not normal

It is absolutely normal for people to have guns in SA and there is NO embarrassment about owning them - no matter what class you come from.

As I've said many times during this discussion - it's about context - we can't apply the logic of what we'd do (in the UK or any other relatively safe country) with how people act/react in SA - I know - I grew up there.

I'm not saying I believe his story beyond a shadow of a doubt. But it is feasible. And until I see further evidence to the contrary I won't believe any hearsay that the tabloids print (especially the 'he said she said' exchanges by the families).

Goodness yes, what a great idea to recreate the scene. I bet they won't have thought of that one to check it all out!

I find the slagging of OP's family pretty off tbh. Even if they are doing stuff in order to sway the judge (and who's to say how they normally act?) frankly if one of my family was going to be banged up in a South African jail I'd be pretty keen on saving them from that and if a public prayer session was going to help, then I'd do it without a thought.

and as to the 'public prayer session'....I think it's stooping a little low to suggest that that was pre-planned rather than purely reactive. They couldn't possibly have known/hoped too much about the outcome to have had the forethought to get their PR machine to work that one so quickly. Let's not forget that their lives have also been turned upside down and it was obviously an extremely emotional week for all. I hardly think a group hug (with a little prayer) is out of order.

wannabe:

yes Carl is big on religion I hear, but if you think that prayer meeting wasn't planned for the cameras you are dreaming

So big on religion and so devastated is Carl at brother killing his GF that he turns up asap with locksmith and lawyer at flat to make sure they retrieve a memory stick with off shore accounts to make sure he gets that before police take it (OP must have collected his thoughts enough by then to as for that from his police cell)...really is that the first priority when your family member has just killed someone?

So big on religion is OP, that he shoots to kill without even sight of an intruder - even on his own version he summarily executed someone ...that still makes it murder

And I also think it is very off to judge SA by UK standards. We may baulk at public displays of emotion here, but it is not so in other countries. Looking for answers in behaviour without contextualising is not going to get you very far. And as others have said, it is OP on trial not his family.

attny you're jumping to a lot of conclusions there with very little hard evidence. It's all hearsay at this stage (re safe/locksmith etc). And who said that OP 'shot to kill'? How do you know he did't just shoot out of blind fear? None of us know that yet - we weren't there and we don't have all the facts yet.

I think you are being unfair to South Africans...guns are far more prevalent in the US...and how normal is it to apply for machine guns licences as OS did? I'll bet that is NOT normal

OP even

What mechanical said

attny the dynamics in US and SA are totally different. It's a poor comparison

you shoot to kill if you shoot four times into a tiny space where there is no escape...he had been trained with guns ...he knows how to shoot to kill

Agree re keeping of guns being totally normal. When we lived in SA and my dad had one, and yet we lived in a relatively safe place - a diamond mine with very tight security and almost non existent crime rate because of how secure it was. Yet when we travelled down to Cape town the gun went too. in the car. loaded. never did we have to use it but it was just one of those things - I admit I never much liked the idea of it being there.

One day we went to a bbq at some friends and the guy says to me and my dad oh come and have a look here, and he opens up this cabinet and gets out all his guns - lots of them. Pistols, revolvers, various other ones - I don't much recall but he gave them to me to have a look at them - I would have been about twelve I think.

Not everyone is that proud of the guns they own but most people do own one wouldn't hesitate to use it.

Yes the gunshot might have drowned out any noise - or the ringing it leaves in your ears afterward

as i said ...I am basing what I said on what was said in trial ...not press hearsay...mag mentioned locksmith, lawyer and Carl collecting memory stick from safe and was astounded bungling Botha did not prevent them taking it ...I am expressing opinion ...just like others are here...I don't like that OP's family hired a sun hack for PR...but as i said it will come out in the trial forensics and witness reports ...the prosecution have done well to get an affadavit from OP to find a lot of holes in...even mag said he found OP's account dubious...but up to trial to decide...he was just deciding on bail

And do you think he had the presence of mind to think through what the outcome would be? Remember in his head the person behind the door could have killed him. There's a 'shoot or be shot' mentality. It's very easy for us to theorise about what was going through his head. Nobody knows how they would react in the face of (perceived) danger.

wouldn't hesitate to use it to summarily execute an unseen burglar then ?

I think if the locksmith was enough of an issue it could have been grounds to prevent bail. It obviously wasn't. And as I said earlier, just because there's doubt about OP's account of events it doesn't mean it didn't happen. The onus is on the prosecution to prove that it didn't - and they've done a rubbish job so far. I look forward to the forensic evidence and I will maintain an open mind until then.

so instead of taking your gun and your GF and leaving your apartment ..you go in pitch black darkness (apparently) to one room where you think said murderous burglar may be ?

Attny, do you know what goes on in South African jails? I'm pretty sure you'd take whatever pr you could in order to keep your lived ones out, guilty or innocent. Jails in the uk are one thing but I wouldn't wish South African jail on my worst enemy.

attny you seem to be missing the point. The level of fear in SA is off the scale - and it's justified. And, sadly, life is cheap there. There are countless murders a day and most go unreported. Everyone knows at least one person in their inner circle whose life has been endangered due to violent crime. In that context his actions aren't unusual.

"I think you are being unfair to South Africans...guns are far more prevalent in the US..." have you ever actually been to South Africa? you know, other than as a tourist? Do you actually know any south Africans who have been the victims of violent crime? I have - I grew up there. Let me give you an idea shall I? Ironically from my facebook news feed of yesterday:

Friend one states that a trial of five armed men who robbed, shot and seriously injured her parents on their farm two years ago finally ended with one of the men being found guilty, the other four, the judge said he knew them to be guilty but the police botched the investigation to the extent that there was "reasonable doubt" and thus he had no alternative but to release them. She went on to say that the police still have a gun that was found on the farm that they have never tested, that the judge acknowledged the police investigation had been a shambols but that nothing would now be done - this is it.

Friend two then comments that she knows how friend one feels because when her husband was murdered six years ago they hoped for justice but no-one has ever even been tried let alone convicted.

Friend three (who I know only from name) then says that it's hard but people have to move forward or it just leads to bitterness and resentment, no-one has yet been brought to justice for shooting his brother (he too was seriously injured)..

These are people I know personally. Two of whom I shared rooms with at school (I went to boarding school) so not just friends of friends etc all having this discussion as if it's just an every day thing - oh wait, it is!

But you keep believing that the South Africans aren't habitually victims of violent crime and don't need to keep a gun by the bed as a matter of course....

Get real.

so the fear is so off the scale that he left his bedroom balcony doors open....

Is the locksmith a red herring here? I can't understand why they'd need one - it was OP's safe & he was there!

Most windows/doors have security gates over them so that's not unusual.

being on a remote farmhouse is different from being in a secured guarded compound surrounded by other houses where you feel safe enough to leave your balcony windows open...and again, why would a machine gun be on his wish list ...look at previous articles